Time to take back language - a manifesto discussion thread

[Forwarder]

One of the anti women lobby's key tools is language.

Okay, calling women non-men is, as yet, still a step too far. But much of their success is in redefing language.

I would like to suggest that MN FWR creates a new lexicon, that recentres the discussion on to women's rights. I realise this thread might get deleted, but worth a try.

What words and phrases do think need alternatives and what would you suggest?

but they aren't either a functioning penis or vagina

so imitation penis/ imitation vagina?

Faux-gina
Peen-ish

Peenish makes me think of fancy dip. It took a minute or two before I remembered the Moorish smoked hummous they sell in Waitrose.

Gender Ideology Believers or just G.I.B for short (it is after all just gibberish )

I like that @Myalternate though I’d put in 2 letter i for l gender identity ideology believers. We can call them Giibers - ‘oh the giibers are talking gibberish again.’

sounds a bit innocuous though when they’re anything but…

Surgery => Cosmetic surgery

'top' surgery => double mastectomy

'bottom' surgery => radical cosmetic surgery on their genitals

feminising facial surgery (ffs) => cosmetic surgery intended to change the shape of the face

e.g. wearing a binder doesn't stop the breast tissue of girls growing but does damage the tissue and shape of the breasts whilst not giving the girl an opportunity to grow accustomed and comfortable to the shape of her body and dramatically increases the chances that she will remain uncomfortable with her body and wish to progress to a double mastectomy once available.

And

Trans identifying people are, in many cases, vulnerable and distressed and without doing a thorough and conscientious differential diagnosis and treatment of known comorbidities it is extremely irresponsible for doctors to proceed with a presumption that radical cosmetic surgery to their genitals will relieve their distress in more than a superficial or temporary way.

The original meaning of the word was something people did, not what they are. So I'm not keen on talking about "trans people" or "trans identifying people" because they are not a coherent group. There is no stable meaning of the word and it covers so many different cohorts, only some of whom I feel compassion for. I would always insist on breaking it down by sex, by age, by extent of body mod, and motivation, AGPs, fetishists, SA survivors, those with internalised homophobia, those with autism...all different groups. And of course there are the charlatans and grifters.

“bottom' surgery => radical cosmetic surgery on their genitals”

You know what, though I accept the points made by pp upthread, really I think genital mutilation is what this is.

I would be content to be specific and say castration and penile inversion for men and use metoidoplasty and phalloplasty for women.

The genital surgeries are beyond cosmetic due to the nature and frequency of complications, and the consequences even without complications. These surgeries would never be legal as cosmetic surgeries if not for the ideology behind them and the power the proponents of that ideology hold.

@BellaAmorosa yeah I agree - it's hard to imagine a more diverse group of people really. The reasons for discomfort (even whether they are experiencing discomfort) the problems arising the accommodations that might be requested or required. Totally totally different challenges.

@PomegranateOfPersephone when it comes to genitals function has got to be prioritised over appearance. I completely agree with you that the scope and impact of the surgeries goes well beyond the 'normal' bounds of cosmetic surgery. I think what I like about using the term cosmetic here is that you're starting out with a functional set of genitals and radically altering them to give a very different appearance in ways which are likely to impact function, but will not give you 'fully functional' sex organs of the opposite sex, but rather your organs will more closely resemble those of a member of the opposite sex.

Bottom surgery always makes me think of haemorrhoids. It’s such a weird phrase.

Will admit that was where my head went originally when i heard it I thought it was to get round the fact that the majority struggle to spell haemorrhoids.

Plus bottom surgery so very much downplays the horrific nature of the operations for both sexes I think it's positively cruel to give it such a cutesy nickname.

Ha! Took me several times before the spellchecker even gave me the word!
Yes I thought it was a way of not saying haemorrhoids or piles out of embarrassment.

Http://authortomharper.com/wp-content/upl…

Hope this link works. US researchers testing their genderist messaging to move the 'persuadables'.

As privileged white males they are co opting critical race theory to get black and latino Americans to go along with them.

Please read what we are up against

That links does not seem to connect with what you are saying?

I get the distinct impression that queer/gender ideologues are ramping things up considerably right now. Probably because it is Pride month. It is a time to be very clear and firm in your use of language. Plain, Simple English.

Forwarder's link didn't work for be either but I do believe this is the document she was talking about https://authortomharper.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Transgender-Youth-and-the-Freedom-to-Be-Ourselves.pdf

*for me either

It is incredibly basic and naive, relying on being able to stimulate people's feelings. There are no alternative or well thought through arguments at all. Just cynical herd manipulation.

"Name the villains who violate our values, expose their motivation of getting back into or holding onto power, and position them as a barrier to what our families need"

"Unfortunately, our focus groups echoed past research in finding concerningly low connection to, understanding of, and familiarity with transgender people in the U.S., including among our traditional progressive base"

"Our base and persuadables want to support transgender student- athletes, but are extremely susceptible to our opposition’s argument that excluding trans youth is necessary to protect the fairness of women’s sports.
We suspect there are two key factors differentiating views on sports from other issues. First, people primarily understand sports through the individualistic lens of competition, where if one person wins then another, by definition, loses"

Me to in the end i had to look at your post for how to spell it!

The embrace/replace section is interesting.

For once the suggested changes seem sensible. They've obviously realised their previous versions as part of no debate aren't doing them any favours and have gone for we are all human treat us all the same approach. Which is much more sensible.

That said the fact that they use the word exploit a lot in the earlier sections indicates to me that this isn't being done to ensure complete integration and equality for all but to muddy the water and enlarge the group of people that would help the transgender cause.

reading this article helps to understand how we have been completely blindsided by clever argument. The section about sports is classic doublethink.

I think the paraphrased argument goes like this, though it is really hard to read and cut through the rhetoric.

Women have always been discriminated against in sport ( lower pay for professional sportswomen, fewer accolades etc). - nothing to argue against there.

Therefore we need to be promoting equality for women in sports across all areas - well yes, I think we can agree on that one.

Then comes the doublethink, Excluding trans women from womens sports is just another mean and unfair example of the discrimination and inequality sportswomen are subjected too , when trans women are welcomed and take part in womens sports then that layer of discrimination is removed, making womens sports more inclusive, more equal and less discriminatory for all women

Gotcha you nasty little TERFS, it is now categorically proven by doublespeak that by excluding trans women from womens sports you are actively damaging sportswomen! It is so easy to win an argument when you miss out all the salient points isn’t it.

@viques yes I think you're absolutely right about the double speak

It runs through everything even the concept of 'trans people' being a single coherent and meaningful group of people at all as @BellaAmorosa pointed out.

Middle aged men with a sexualised obsession with the bodies of women and girls are absolutely the best people to speak for and about teenage girls with a strong aversion to men sexualising their bodies sounds like a pretty hard sell unless you have some truly extraordinary pr going on.