Caitlin Moran article 1 Jul in Guardian

[funnelfan]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/01/caitlin-moran-whats-gone-wrong-for-men-and-the-thing-that-can-fix-them?

I’m still not sure how to respond to this. I love Caitlin's writing and I find it hard to disagree with anything she’s written here, so I’ll probably buy the book as I have most of her others.

However, however, one thing jumped out at me. Why is it up to women to tell men they must fix the terrible issues they have with homophobia, bullying, loneliness, suicide etc, and show them how to do it? There’s great groups out there like shed clubs etc that are trying to get the message out that “it’s ok to be not ok”. Isn’t it a bit patronising to be saying mean should be using the women’s examples of support as the way forward for men?

Of course women who are sisters, mothers, daughters, friends etc will always be concerned about their male loved ones in distress. But the overall theme of the article as I read it leans towards women being the default support-human in showing them the way and I’m uncomfortable with that. On the other hand, we also see what happens when men start campaigning for rights on their own and it isn’t very pretty.

so I’m not sure how to reconcile my thoughts at the moment. Interestingly, “trans” issues did not even get a sniff of a mention in the article, and I don’t know whether that’s because Caitlin seems to avoid the topic entirely anyway so it’s not in the book, or whether it’s because it’s the Guardian and what she wrote in the book may not fit with their current thinking.

'It seems to be a kind of feminism that speaks for women while keeping one eye on shocking or impressing the lads. I've always been uncomfortable with that, but now it's gone from being irritating to being faintly ridiculous and embarrassing.'

Very well put. It's a very dated, immature, 90s performance of 'feminism'. The endless tits and fanny talk is just awful. The other four writers you listed are bright, thoughtful, engaging, do their research, and don't have the irritating wacky show-off personality which many of us find tiresome

I think Caitlin Moran's experiences of men by her writing seems to be her husband and then Gen Z relatives. The 30-something dads I know don't fit her mould of men. They're engaged parents who talk to each other about parenting and being a dad. All she needs to do is listen to some of the podcasts out there like parenting hell or the imperfects. Millennial men talking about their feelings, relationships and kids.

The gurning alone is enough to put me off. OK, I get it - women in the public eye get a lot of scrutiny, and that can be uncomfortable. But she is part of that scrutiny herself. She writes a column, mocking celebs (albeit fairly gently). So, woman up. I just feel embarrassed on her behalf, every time I see her. It's another example of her arrested development.

Totally agree.

Now the Guardian have given it a pasting: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jul/12/what-about-men-by-caitlin-moran-review-bantz-gone-bad
The book does sound as though it’s really sloppily written, and based on a lot of very flimsy assumptions. Who is it pitched at?

Oh that's brilliant. It really is just blatant money spinning nonsense.

These reviews have introduced me to two writers/journalists I wasn’t aware of and would much rather read more of than this book so it’s not been all bad, speaking for myself.

The Guardian review is a cracker. Got to love a book bad enough to cut through the general enforced politesse and celebration of mediocrity modern reviews trade in.

As Truman Capote wrote of something else, this isn’t writing, it’s typing. Sometimes Moran doesn’t even type. She cuts and pastes.

OOOHH!!

I'm now also very interested in reading Ivy Compton Burnett!

😆

Am I allowed as a man to maintain my sacred spaces etc? If I am, then my message to CM is, fuck off, we don't need your faux spiky and self referential platitudes.

Just stick to your "may have grown up in poverty, just not of the mind" tired hippy schtick.

And leave the real heavy lifting to the likes of Jordan Peterson etc, and other psychotherapists and philosophers.

Men have plenty of issues without your facile input.

What's struck me is when she talks about penis size shudders, she's talking about flaccid size, as if that has any sort of relevance to anything at all. Even I know that that's not when or how you measure it!

And what is this world, in which 40-something women are constantly chatting about sex, penis size or their vaginas? Many of my friends are HCPs, so we're pretty no-holds-barred, but I've rarely had that sort of conversation on a personal level (as opposed to "You will NOT believe what my patient had shoved up his rectum...") for 20-odd years. It's the stuff you might share with your flatmates in your late teens/early 20s, when you're trying to figure out what's normal and what you like in bed.

It's telling that CM has apparently not moved on.