Teenager guilty of murder.

[placemats]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo

Apart from the fact that she was raped, if consent to sex is to be a legal term, I find the prosecutions allegations appalling.

'But the prosecution alleged Mayo must have known she was pregnant but chose to deliberately conceal it because she was always planning to kill the baby.'

Perhaps Mayo didn't get early abortion help she needed. I know of one woman, who had 3 previous children, who didn't realise she was pregnant, thought it was early menopause until 4 weeks before her due date. However to allege she was always planning to kill the baby is a step too far. It intimates that those in authority know this child's mind.

The same way someone suffering from psychosis isn’t regularly displaying abnormal behaviour.

Extreme violence towards a neonate would probably result in death. As was the case with Paris Mayo's newborn - her first child at 15.

No, that’s a quote from the judge’s sentencing remarks.

The judge actually said 'fall pregnant'?

No one is disputing that. The point is the judge found that she was not habitually violent and the offence was out of character; and further that she posed no future risk. Which findings seem incompatible with the theories you put forward about her.

She killed her baby. From her point of view, what else could she do?

Maybe actually tell her Mum, or a teacher, or the school nurse, or a friend’s Mum, or just… anyone?

Wrap the baby in a towel and leave him in safe place? A&E, Doctor’s surgery reception, even a bloody petrol station or anywhere a passer by would have found him quickly and got him the help he needed?

Or anything but fucking stamp on his tiny little head hard and repeatedly enough to cause skull fractures and brain damage, followed by shoving cotton wool down his throat to choke him to death?

The judge also said:

"How you did this is not clear, but I suspect you crushed his head, probably beneath your foot,"

So it's not clear how the skull fractures happened, just a suspicion it was by stamping.

She lived in a village, Ruardean, pop 1,300. There's a church though.

It's a four mile walk at best to Ross on Wye from where she lived.

I think it's monstrous that they gave a lengthy custodial sentence to child rape victim who gave birth alone and in secret, resulting in the baby's death.

There's really no evidence that she intentionally killed the baby - the injuries it sustained could have been from dropping from her body to the floor. I've never given birth alone so have no idea how easy it would be to catch a slippery newborn - what if she was on all fours?

Of course the cotton wool is another issue but if you were convinced that you were going to get in trouble/harmed further if you got found out, couldn't she just have been trying to stop it crying?

It seems obvious that the whole situation is tragic, and that Paris Mayo is a victim of massive trauma. I can't believe that any good will come from calling her a murderer and locking her up.

Umm this was a quote from the judge...

My theory was that she intended to kill her child and that she is a risk to future hypothetical babies

Even if it was intentional, infanticide is specifically for when a mother ‘willfully or by omission’ kills their infant under 12 months of age because they’d not fully recovered from childbirth and had a disturbed mental state.

The conviction of murder says not only did she willfully (intentionally) kill her baby but that she was also fully recovered from a traumatic, unassisted, childbirth after having suffered pregnancy denial and her mental state was calm, collected not at all in distress or disturbed.

It seems obvious that the whole situation is tragic, and that Paris Mayo is a victim of massive trauma. I can't believe that any good will come from calling her a murderer and locking her up.

I agree.

Do you think that she intentionally got pregnant, wanted to take the baby to term and then kill it? Is that your theory?

Can someone please explain to me what 'fall pregnant' means?

Does it mean that an angel sent from god says you must now kneel down and in that instant you fall to your knees you become pregnant?

No. Are you an idiot?

However, is there any evidence to suggest that she is traumatised by actually murdering her baby? Apparently she didn't seem to realise the significance of what she'd done.

I seem to remember you advancing the idea that she had deliberately not terminated the pregnancy to have the opportunity to kill the baby, though.
you seem determined to make out that this girl is an embryonic Myra Hindley. The truth, as described by the judge, is much more prosaic, and very, very sad. She is in his words a pathetic figure. And he is in a better position than you to know.

What type of trauma would you expect @AllOfThemWitches

Denial and disassociation are aspects of trauma. You have discounted these.

But that was actually you and I think another poster talking absolute shite? Clearly murder was an option for her though, this is indisputable.

It's sad when anyone has a shitty upbringing. I'll look out for your 'sympathy' for the killer next time a brutal murder is committed.

Yes I remember you tried to suck that one back up the pipe 😆

Except i maintained what I said originally. Her intention was to kill her baby.

The manner in which you kill shouldn’t affect whether you are charged with infanticide or murder, or in other cases manslaughter or murder. The difference between the two crimes hinge upon the mental state of the mother at the time of the killing- not the manner in which she carried out the killing. As scrollingleaves has noted, infanticide only requires the mother to have a disturbed mental state

I didn’t say it did. I was responding to a poster slightly above me who said the baby had been “smothered”. The way that post was written implied a quick, ‘mild’ action which almost inadvertently resulted in Stanley’s death. That’s not correct and so I posted the judge’s comments. Probably the fault of numerous headlines who referred to her killing her baby with cotton wool.

It’s just an English form of expression referring to becoming pregnant. “To Fall pregnant” is roughly equivalent to the American form of expression “to get knocked up” albeit a bit more polite and less derogatory.