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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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7
ResisterRex · 13/06/2023 14:50

Schools shouldn't be buying lessons or materials they can't share. I get given loads of school stuff to house at the end of term (!) including a textbook for maths which, although filled in, could be "stolen from" in terms of copyright and intellectual property.

So why is this different? The burden of sharing is even higher here than in maths or English

anyolddinosaur · 13/06/2023 15:20

She says she's continuing the fight, I'll donate if there is a crowdfunder. So thankful this was not around when my child was at school.

Imnobody4 · 13/06/2023 16:15

I think it's a bit more complicated. It sounds as though there are 2 issues ‐ parent seeing material and right to share.
I agree with Clare all resources should be open to everyone to scrutinise, this includes resources produced by commercial enterprises etc.

“What the ICO and the judge are trying to suggest is that I as a parent may have had a right to see the lesson plans but that doesn’t mean it could be seen by the world at large,” she said. “I believe all state-funded school resources should be published, citable and open for public or regulatory scrutiny.”

Vintagecreamandcottagepie · 13/06/2023 16:20

Risk there's some hiding in plain sight going on here.

Which is enough.

Worlds gone mad.

ArabeIIaScott · 13/06/2023 17:17

Where's the review of sex ed Gillian Keegan promised; supposed to be out before summer recess? That's not long.

VikingLady · 13/06/2023 17:53

I swear, every day that I switch on the internet I get disturbing confirmation of my decision to home educate!

Cattenberg · 13/06/2023 18:40

Do parents still have the right to withdraw their children from Sex and Relationship Education?

Thelnebriati · 13/06/2023 18:56

This is a bizarre legal decision imo; parents are planning to make a parenting decision based on the content; not monetise copyrighted material.

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 13/06/2023 19:07

It does say in the article there was NO objection to showing it to her/another individual parent on school premises, but they refused to allow it to be shared any wider:

"“What the ICO and the judge are trying to suggest is that I as a parent may have had a right to see the lesson plans but that doesn’t mean it could be seen by the world at large,” she said. “I believe all state-funded school resources should be published, citable and open for public or regulatory scrutiny.”
Page said that she wanted to be able to share the material with bodies such as Ofsted or the Department for Education if she felt it raised safeguarding concerns.
School of Sexuality Education wrote to Hatcham College in November 2021 to say it was happy to show Page its slides in a controlled setting but the college did not pass on the message. Page said that she has not seen the full material because the only opportunity she was given was at a meeting when the head of the school’s trust offered to show it to her on a laptop. She said that she gave the laptop back after viewing only two of the slides because she wished to view the material with her daughter and husband, and have the opportunity to share it more widely."

This still seems fairly rubbish to me, and as she says, does not give an opportunity for it to be reviewed and critiqued by someone with safeguarding experience for example. I hope she does appeal and is successful!

WhyThatsDelightful · 13/06/2023 19:14

Vintagecreamandcottagepie · 13/06/2023 16:20

Risk there's some hiding in plain sight going on here.

Which is enough.

Worlds gone mad.

Exactly. What we have here is a collapse in trust of institutions who’re “loco parentis”. Using small print to manage parents’ concerns is making that worse. It’s furtive. We’ve seen too much furtive behaviour in this area for too many years.

I’d now want to see the detailed lesson plans that support the slides, to know exactly what our kids are being told in secret. Why can’t parents attend the class when this topic is being taught? Parents are often used as volunteer support.

SirVixofVixHall · 13/06/2023 20:10

Rainbowshit · 13/06/2023 13:08

In that case we'll have to lobby to stop all external providers being used for sex education in schools full stop. It's not acceptable that parents are unable to see what their kids are being taught in this area.

Agree with this.

MargotBamborough · 13/06/2023 20:23

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 13/06/2023 13:04

@BaronMunchausen I can understand the argument although I disagree with it I shall do my best with the material given...

  1. We invest time and money into making resources which our staff then deliver in schools
  2. Because we are confident experts in this area with such experience and resources school pay us a good deal of money to come in and deliver these areas of the curriculuum
  3. therefore we can make a profit, which as a private business is good business sense
  4. if we gave teachers / schools copies of the resources and they showed them / gave them to parents the resources would end up online
  5. Therefore our time and expertise would be wasted and schools would pay us to come and deliver lessons / wouldn't ask us to come back
  6. and our business wouldn't be profitable so we'd have to close down.

Don't the teachers/schools already have copies of these resources?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 13/06/2023 20:25

The school of sexuality education (the group involved in this case) had links to fetish / kink, sex toys and "quick rough anonymous sex" with some of their "presenters" having links to the sex industry. When they were called out on this, they removed all information about the adults they send into schools (to talk to children below the age of consent).

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ebed56e8-e9ea-11ed-bf4a-7aba37244b0f?shareToken=bfe7123fd7d3eb0f85bcaba5f4d8be04

Safe Schools Alliance has a grim expose of what they think is appropriate to teach children:

https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2023/02/05/the-school-of-sexuality-education/

Sex education group regrets web links to fetish material

An organisation that provides sex education lessons in schools has apologised for posting links on its website to “regrettable” material about fetishes, sex toy

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ebed56e8-e9ea-11ed-bf4a-7aba37244b0f?shareToken=bfe7123fd7d3eb0f85bcaba5f4d8be04

SmurfetteSalad · 13/06/2023 22:13

Does anyone have a read token for the article please?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 13/06/2023 22:37

SmurfetteSalad · 13/06/2023 22:13

Does anyone have a read token for the article please?

Here you are - share token:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/63a3c456-0953-11ee-997e-7710367054a0?shareToken=dd8d398757eb91d78c30781c249b0b94

BigCheekBitch · 13/06/2023 22:38

Thank you.

PurpleBugz · 13/06/2023 22:42

Cattenberg · 13/06/2023 18:40

Do parents still have the right to withdraw their children from Sex and Relationship Education?

In England you can withdraw from sex Ed not relationship Ed.

WhyThatsDelightful · 13/06/2023 22:48

SirVixofVixHall · 13/06/2023 20:10

Agree with this.

Agreed with this too

SirVixofVixHall · 13/06/2023 22:53

PurpleBugz · 13/06/2023 22:42

In England you can withdraw from sex Ed not relationship Ed.

I think in Wales you no longer have that option.

ScrollingLeaves · 13/06/2023 22:53

BigCheekBitch · Today 22:38
MrsOvertonsWindow · Today 22:37

Here you are - share token:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/63a3c456-0953-11ee-997e-7710367054a0?shareToken=dd8d398757eb91d78c30781c249b0b94

Thank you

Thank you from me too.

It’s really not ok to tell parents that being ‘allowed to see PSHE materials’ means that first the parent needs to make a fuss, then they may be given an appointment to sit in the headteacher’s office with the HT’s laptop looking at some slides.

This also does not tell anyone what may have been said in addition to the slides, or what is said in accompanying notes.

Woman loses fight to make daughter’s sex education content public

A mother has been told by a judge that she cannot have teaching material shown to her daughter in a sex education lesson released publicly.Clare Page, 47, lost

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/63a3c456-0953-11ee-997e-7710367054a0?shareToken=dd8d398757eb91d78c30781c249b0b94

MrGHardy · 14/06/2023 01:41

From the article “Page began her campaign after her daughter, then 15, came home from Hatcham College in New Cross, southeast London, saying that she had been taught to be “sex positive” and that heteronormativity was “a bad thing”.”

How did we get to a point that this is not only acceptable and done in schools, but hidden from parents? Schools are not there to indoctrinate children into the ideology of the day.

Part of it is the off the charts feeling of righteousness and the entitlement that comes with it to push one's views on others. They are so convinced of the veracity and goodness of their morality, that they feel entitled to impose it on others.

Mother’s campaign to lift lid on graphic sex ed lessons

Clare Page’s 15-year-old daughter came home from school last autumn flustered. She had been told during a lesson to be “sex positive” about her attitude to relationships, and that “heteronormativity” was “a bad thing”.Page knew the lesson at her daught...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mothers-campaign-to-lift-lid-on-graphic-sex-ed-lessons-zckhz3kzp

dimorphism · 14/06/2023 06:07

It seems to me the judge doesn't understand safeguarding laws and has made a mistake here. It's pretty clear in Keeping Children Safe that safeguarding trumps GDPR so it doesn't make sense that this wouldn't also be the case, in law,

dimorphism · 14/06/2023 06:09

Oops posted too soon.....

Doesn't make sense that safeguarding wouldn't also trump commercial confidentiality

I will contribute to any appeal, I think the judge has had insufficient regard to child safeguarding legislation. Red flags for safeguarding all over this story.

drwitch · 14/06/2023 06:25

I think the case confuses what is taught with how it's taught. It's surely only the latter that can be protected on a commercial interest ground and there is a clear public interest in making the former public

Think about another good e.g. a phone -you would want to see what it looked like, whether it was safe, what battery power it had, what it is made from but you don't need to know how it is made