TW selected for angling team leads to half the team quitting the squad.

[Justme56]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12181413/Half-England-ladies-angling-team-quit-trans-woman-selected-join-squad.html

I’m sad to say it but good for them. They shouldn’t have to stand down but at least it brings attention to the issue.

yup

fooling yourself never leads to good things

what is role playing as a member of the opposite sex if not fooling yourself?

huge respect for these women

Exactly. Why are women always being told what to do and give up. Sick of it.

Oh this one is so close to my heart, as this is my hobby, I'm so sad for the women on that team, angling really is male dominated and for the team to now be subjected to that too, I'm so sorry for them. But proud of them for standing up.

This is very interesting because this is a sport which doesnt normally get much press coverage. I believe they have to pay all their own travel expenses and buy their own equipment as there is no grant funding and sponsorship is pretty non exisient. These women are literally playing for honour/competition. (This is based on a friend being in the uk junior team).

It makes me feel like sponsors/grant people are preventing other athletes speaking out.

Very brave and principled from those women. Their female teammates should take a good long look at themselves. I hold out no hope of any introspection by the male.

In the article, Jamie Cook says that Sport England required them to assess whether the sport is "gender-impacted to an extent where fairness overrides inclusion or safety" - which doesn't sound right to me. Under the EA2010, a sport is gender-affected if being male confers an advantage. The split into male and female categories would suggest that is the case.
And then having asked himself the wrong question, he concludes that because there is no safety issue, inclusion overrides fairness. Absolute gibberish and the basis of a claim for direct sex discrimination, I would think.

Nothing is safe from these men.

@NotBadConsidering
Yes, agreed - it's not just about fairness, the inclusion of males where they do not belong impinges on women's freedom of association as well.

Ah, you've never had a 40lb carp or an extremely pissed off 20lb Esox on the end of a line, I see, never mind the actual type of competition this was.

Interesting that the angler in question has been competing for England since 2018 but it’s only become news now. I wonder if it’s because it’s only now that the women involved feel emboldened to make a stand?

Yes. And leaving aside any mechanical reasons for sex differences, I understood some of the reason we need sex segregated categories etc is because of women's lives tending to be disrupted by their biology - menstruation, pregnancy, child rearing all tending to have adverse impacts on a career/interrupt such.

And now I've had to go and look up Esox - now I know its a pike!

Think it's worse than that, its a positive refusal to even consider alternative views in case, you know, turns out you believe complete fucking nonsense, which is never a good look. No debate was not incidental in all this shit show.

Is there a difference between female and male horses in terms of racing speed?

Genuinely interested... sorry if it's a derail!

There’s a difference in temperament which can make mares tricksy.

These women really are very brave and principled and willing to sacrifice their own successes for all women and girls. (there is a stark contrast in behaviour with CERTAIN people who claim womanhood but show no solidarity or caring behaviour towards woman and the girls coming up behind them).

I would very much like to do some digging for them so they can bring a sex discrimination claim. What would be great would be if some all female team competitors also joined with this - as the women on those teams are quite clearly disadvantaged by the inclusion of a man on the England team.

TW sportspeople always trot out the same line, don't they. "I will never let anyone stop me from doing what I love."

No-one is stopping them doing it, just saying that they should do it in their natal sex category. I've never yet seen any of them defend why they should be in the women's team.

Very brave and principled stance from these women - they have my utmost respect.
I'm leaving my sport (a contact team sport) partly due to the inclusion of transwomen - making it both unfair and unsafe - but I'm (slightly past) retirement age anyway, so it's an easier decision for me. Almost without exception the younger women are prepared to put up with it for the chance to play. I'm not sure what I would be doing if I was 20 years younger.

There is absolutlely a difference between men and women though, in equestrian sports.

Firstly, male competitors are overrepresented compared to the overall proportion of boys and men who ride - at my yard, for instance, there is one man, compared to maybe 25-30 women and a few girls. I have always assumed this is because men are more competitive by nature, and possibly braver, so more likely to want to compete at high levels in a dangerous sport. Perhaps sponsorship is also a factor in some disciplines, given the expense of equestrian sports, plus of course it is very time-consuming, which can be difficult for mothers.

But maybe there's more to it. A couple of articles:

One from the US
Men dominate the Olympic equestrian podium although only 25% of participants overall are male. In the last 4 Summer Olympics 11 of the 12 Show jumping medals won have been by male riders

And another
men win far more individual medals than women at the Olympic Games across all [equestrian] disciplines. In some cases, the disparity is staggering.... in Show Jumping Twenty-five male riders have taken home individual gold since 1900 – women’s participation began in 1956 – but no woman competitor ever has.

These women are brilliant. Now other sports need to follow suit.

The tide is turning.

@DuesToTheDirt

I’ve often pondered on that.

Is there a difference between female and male horses in terms of racing speed?

That’s a long story! In the 5 Classic races, the 1000 Guineas, 2000 Guineas, Derby, Oaks & St Leger, the 1000 Guineas & Oaks are open to fillies only. The others are open to both sexes (not geldings).
The last fully to win the Derby was Fifinella in 1916.
There have been plenty of very fast fillies and mares who have beaten the best colts in top races.

DuestotheDirt what you say is absolutely true, but what I meant was that there are no restrictions and men and women competing on equal terms.

Dimorphism - also fillies get a weight allowance eg, carry less weight than colts but there are also weight penalties for winning races - it’s a bit complicated.

Looking at the figures, I wonder if it should be split by sex after all.