Suing over single sex changing rooms

[ChristinaXYZ]

I've come across a woman called Emma who wants to sue David Lloyd fitness over their policy on changing rooms and toilets. A petition is also being run. She wants to make sure her 11 and 13 year old girls can have access to a single sex facility.

She is gardening at Democracy 3 "Help Emma sue David Lloyd".

I am more wary of donating via Democracy 3 as the money does not necessarily go straight to lawyers like with Crowdjustice I think? And Emma has not said what any excess funds may be used for. This does not mean I doubt her motives (her description of the background sounds very likely) or intentions - she may just be new to this!

As I say there is a petition too if you don't want to donate. Does anyone know if your name is automatically dispalyed on a Democracy 3 petition? There is no check box for signing without it being displayed on the first screen at least.

Hello thank you so much for sharing story on Mumsnet. My case was picked up as part of a case study for the Parliamentary Debate on 12th June to make the Equality Act clear (thanks to Helen Joyce of Sex Matters). I am indeed very new to this process but I chose to crowd fund with Democracy 3.0 because of Sarah Phillimore and Andrew Bridgen and thought I would be in good company. I very appreciate your feedback and have forwarded your concerns to Democracy 3.0 for comment. Best wishes Emma Hardy

https://democracythree.org/help-emma-sue-david-lloyd

I saw this article, apparently David Lloyd's policy is that their members can access the changing rooms based on their 'gendered appearance' (what this means in practical terms is anyone's guess). Presumably a man could don a flowery blouse and some lipstick, strip off in the ladies changing rooms and if queried could claim they identify as a woman and no one could do anything because 'inclusivity'. I live in York and have been to the gym in question, this has really brought it all home to me.

So the changing rooms are provided on the basis of self declared gender identity and not sex?
They should put that on the doors. Not 'men' and 'women', which creates an expectation that they comply with The Equality Act sex based exemptions.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3/paragraph/27

Where is this policy set out? I can see it in the UK Active guidance (and its unexplained "gender in which they present") but not on the David Lloyd website.

Surely when in the process of changing, ie without clothes, a person's gendered identity will be decreed by their biology?

That's interesting, as I am sure that a year or 2 back DLL was mentioned as a group where changing rooms were properly single sex.

Quite! At which point they have broken DL's policy that their members can access the changing rooms based on their 'gendered appearance'.

Think that was Duncan Bannatyne gyms.

Hi @HardyEM Thank you for doing what you're doing. It is stressful and expensive and I am glad to help. If you can edit your 'about' section on Democracy 3 to say what will happen to any unused funds then that helps give people more confidence and I am sure you will get more support. Most people offer to pass unused funds raised to similar crowd funders for the same cause. Or to donate to Sex Matters of Fair Play for Women or similar. Entirely up to you of course but it stops grumbling on forums!

As I say I wish you all the best with this. Good luck!

This is fantastic advice, watch this space ChristinaXYZ.

Thank you

Emma

Good. It's wrong that women need to resort to the courts but until those in charge understand that it's not acceptable for men to undress for swimming alongside young girls and women, this is where we are. (disclaimer - I know that decent men understand this, it's the others who need tackling).

Thank you Emma for pursuing this.

That guidance is disgusting. It basically says men can do what they want.

My daughter had a long email battle with DL, they tried their best to obfuscate and skirt round the issue. She eventually ended her membership with them.

Well let's hope many more do the same. In the meantime I am grateful to anyone prepared to put her head above the parapet as @HardyEM is doing and take legal action.

FFS I’m a member of DL and didnt realise this was their policy! I also thought they had stated their changing rooms were single sex. Thank you for taking this on Emma.

Thanks for doing this Emma

BBC, Guardian, mainstream media etc. won't even discuss this issue. Women are being told that they must put up and shut or be called 'Terfs' (I fail to see what's radical in believing in biological facts) The only way we stop this insanity is financial. Don't give your money to any organisation that oppresses women. Being a good woman doesn't mean being a doormat. Read Prof. Kathleen Stock's ( OBE ) book please!

Thank ou @HardyEM for doing this.

Are you in touch with Maya Forstater's organisation, Sex Matters ? They might be interested, and will certainly have advice for you.

Crikey my local slightly down at heel Local Authority gym has signs on the changing rooms saying these are for female sex customers only, how can they get it right and DL so wrong?!

This is my issue. At no point has David Lloyd told us that the single-sex sign posted facilities are "inclusive". I had to ask to find out. It's their business if they want to run an "inclusive" club but don't pretend this is "family friendly".

https://democracythree.org/help-emma-sue-david-lloyd

It is a private members club and not cheap.

I wonder which would hurt them more financially, a large chunk of their female members cancelling and leaving or a large chunk of the male members who identify themselves into the women’s changing rooms leaving? 🤔

As you say @HardyEM DL markets itself as a family club, not many parents are going to want their daughters in changing rooms to which penis people have access.

I have been to my local DL as a guest and from what I remember the changing rooms are open plan, no cubicles or maybe 1 or 2 cubicles.

Thank you so much for taking this on @HardyEM it will no doubt have a wider impact. Even making it more widely known that this is a problem will benefit women and girls. I will look up the petition and crowdfunder. One of my daughters has been hassling me to join DL, her and myself, we definitely won’t be if this doesn’t get resolved in favour of women and girls.

Thank you very much for your response. I really hope this will help people ask more questions.

I complained about this years ago, though not to DL.

I hope you win.

I have boycotted lots of services since this nonsense came up on my radar, as best I can. I found new interests and independent retailers who are not political and have great customer service.

Good luck Emma.