Countering trans suicide figures

[Walkingtheplank]

DD asked I'd we could talk about trans issues/female rights yesterday. All very calm but ultimately we disagree on key points.

She raised the point that trans teens are more like to (try to) commit suicide.

Can anyone add a link here to a article explaining why this is not true so that I can share it with her?

There's a problem with formatting today because not only did I quote i bolded a section and it hasn't come out.

I'd like the evidence that children identifying as transgender are more likely to kill themselves than other children. Thanks.

What is the proportion of transgender children in all child suicides, and how does it compare to known antecedents like mental health issues and bereavement?

“It is an academically researched fact that the rate of suicidal actions among transgender people, as well as LGBTQ+ individuals more broadly, is far higher than the wider population, particularly among young people.”

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-transgender-attempted-suicide-rate-1791504

Canada
“Compared with cisgender, heterosexual adolescents, transgender adolescents showed 5 times the risk of suicidal ideation (95% confidence interval [CI] 3.63 to 6.75; 58% v. 10%) and 7.6 times the risk of suicide attempt (95% CI 4.76 to 12.10; 40% v. 5%).”
https://www.cmaj.ca/content/194/22/E767

USA
“Aggregated into 1 group, TGAs had higher odds of all outcomes as compared with CGAs. Within TGA subgroups, transgender males and transgender females had higher odds of suicidal ideation and attempt than CGA groups.”
TGA= Transgender Adolescents, CGAs= Cisgender Adolescents
https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/144/5/e20191183/38246/Suicidality-Disparities-Between-Transgender-and?autologincheck=redirected

Transgender trend link doesn't work for me. I've found it via Google, accessed and pasted, not sure why it isn't working:

www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

That doesn't answer my question. I asked for the rate of completed suicide, because as I pointed out, the attempt rate group is not the same thing.

As most "trans" children would be LGB, how do the groups compare?

How do we disentangle 'mental health issues' and 'having the feeling you're not the gender your biology says you are'?

If (like Rachel Dolezal) I am convinced that I have black and Native American ancestry, despite my DNA showing no such thing, and I use that to try gain privileges reserved to people with black and Native American ancestry (a historically oppressed group, like women), is that a mental health issue or am I just mistaken? Is the tribes rejection of my claim to Native American ancestry on the grounds that my DNA shows no such thing literal violence against my identity or just an assertion that feelings are not the same thing as facts?

No, T is not LGB.
As for how T compares to LGB. Still higher risk
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7906236/

I appreciate that this is a discussion amongst adults looking at the shameful misuse of statistics in relation to vulnerable children but it is still important to bear in mind the consequences for young people of suggesting that suicide goes hand in hand with being part of any group - as the Samaritans point out. Children are not mini adults and the Samaritans repeatedly point out the dangers of social contagion impacting on them:

"Don’t refer to a possible rise in suicides in a specific place or among a particular group as an ‘epidemic’, ‘spate’ or other similar term. Two or more people taking their own lives who, for example, share a similar background, age, or live in a similar geographic area may be a coincidence. Steer clear of implying a connection where there may be none. Evidence suggests that reference to clusters can lead to additional suicides.

Avoid speculation around the causes of a young person’s suicide. For example, when a suicide is reported and bullying is cited as the cause, this could affect other young people experiencing bullying who may be feeling hopeless about their own situation. Making direct links about causes oversimplifies suicide". (bolding mine)

https://media.samaritans.org/documents/Guidance_on_reporting_youth_suicides_and_suicide_clusters_FINAL.pdf

The first link fact check answered that as suicide completion is a type of suicide action.

So far, despite claiming you had the data, you haven't given anything about the numbers of completed suicides.

No, you can't extrapolate completion from attempt. It's misleading.

As I said, more women attempt suicide, but significantly more men than women complete it.

Here is also an article that walks you through the Netherlands study I had posted upthread that covers all ages and included suicide deaths.
https://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/suicide/suicide-risk-transgender-people/

Basically transpeople have 4x lifetime risk of suicide compared to general population.

I did, upthread. But apparently you are having trouble reading it so I’ve dug up a nice article for you :) enjoy,

It's about adults, so perhaps you could "walk me through" how many children, and how that compares to other groups of children in the Netherlands?

You didn’t ask for numbers btw, only evidence that suicide risks were higher? Done that a few times over.

It’s about ALL AGES. Children through adults.

Ages 4 to 81. Can it be any more clear?

I don't care, I asked you to tell me the numbers, which you don't seem able to do so. How many children killed themselves?

How does it compare to the general population and other groups of vulnerable children?

Perhaps a chart will help you?

Also, this is a study ending in 2017. Transgender ideology has become much more widespread since then. Don't you have anything more recent?

No, it doesn't help me, because it quite clearly doesn't answer the question.