Why is it socially acceptable to stereotype and vilify white women as a whole?

[TheTERFnextDoor]

I've seen this a lot recently, often from other white women bizarrely, and I don't understand why it's socially acceptable?

I think it goes without saying that in most groups, you get good and bad people. White women are surely no different in that respect? Yes, many of them are privileged, and they don't face the discrimination that other categories might. I accept that. However, that doesn't change the fact that they aren't some homogeneous mass of people, surely?

I am genuinely trying to learn here, so I'd appreciate all responses, particularly those that disagree

It is more the lack of race as a barrier here which is the important factor. No one is saying that the person in your example has economic privilege, but a non white person in the exact same scenario statistically has even worse outcomes.

Race is a privilege separate to any other type of socioeconomic privilege and it is better viewed as a lack of additional barriers in my opinion.

It is being a racial minority, not something fixed and intrinsic to race itself.

So a white guy will have better outcomes in a majority white society, but I doubt this race privilege would hold in a majority black society.

I would say that is ignoring some pretty important contextual clues about global history and colonialization though. Is there a genuine parallel anywhere on the planet today where* *there are majority back societies with a minority white population couple with centuries of history of racial subjugation by the black people in that country to the white people?

He’s less likely to die in police or prison custody than a Black boy with the exact same background. He’s likely to be given a shorter prison sentence. He’s more likely to find employment after prison. He’s more likely to access addiction support and mental health services. He’s more likely to be housed by the council near to family.

because what you have to realise is the divide and the systemic unfairness comes from somewhere. It doesn't just exist because one group is a minority and one is a majority. It comes from a history of inequality toward one group.

Look at women's rights - women are 50% of the population so why should we ever have been treated unequally as we are not a minority? It's not anything to do with being a minority and to do with perceptions of that group of people, and when society is built around those perceptions and inequalities, it doesn't just go away. Hence the term systemic racism.

No, but there are plenty of countries where one racial group is treated as inferior to another - the Roma in Hungary, the Uighurs in China, the Rohingya in Myanmar etc.

Yes, I agree that you don't necessarily have to be in a minority to experience discrimination, although I do think it's a risk factor, as minorities are less likely to hold power.

I used to live in a city that was 50:50 white:black (not UK), and there was still obvious social and economic discrimination against black people.

As it stands, men can say “look, that white woman’s tears got that black man shot/fired/attacked,” conveniently avoiding who it is who actually does the shooting/dismissing/attacking. They are happy for white women to be blamed, because it doesn’t affect them in the slightest and they get to carry on with the status quo.

Without men jumping on the bandwagon there is an established type of behaviour displayed by white women to the detriment of Black women and Black people more widely. As was mentioned upthread the book r.e. Why I no longer talk to white people about race was an eye-opener.

There were requests upthread for examples of this happening in the UK. Do you have any?

There were requests upthread for examples of this happening in the UK. Do you have any?

I'd like to see some UK-specific examples as well. Because that's essentially a statement that the majority of women in the UK - and why women, in particular? - target minorities as a matter of course, which seems extraordinary to me.

A black man was accused of stealing from his own car by a white woman as he cleaned it on a street in Bristol.

Police in Bristol are treating an incident in which a white woman hit a 12-year-old black boy on the forehead with paddle as racially motivated after initially deciding not to prosecute.

The woman was arrested, but three weeks later an officer told the boy’s family that no further action was being taken because the alleged attacker said she had acted in self-defence and felt “threatened”.

Racism is different from prejudice. Racism involves one group having the power to carry out systematic discrimination, eg in employment, through policies and practices. If you believe this to be true, as I do, then White people in this county may be the victim of prejudice but not racism. Black people do not have sufficient power to to wield systemic discrimination against the dominant culture/white people.

This is just my opinion and I appreciate many do not agree with my definition of racism. That’s fine. I’m not changing my view though so no need for white people to respond and complain that they definitely have been the victim of racism because (just listing one of the reasons I’ve seen on this board) they’ve been given dirty looks by Muslim men in a predominantly Asian area. That sounds terrible but it’s not racism. I’m also referring to the UK specially so no need to tell me about that time you did a gap year in Malawi and you were the only white person around for miles so you know what it’s like to be a minority or the expat experience in Asia when your colleagues treated you differently because you are white.

@FrostyFifi It's already been established men can and do behave in aggressive racist ways towards Black people. The ways in which they exhibit such behaviour do vary from women. If you gathered that (white) women 'target minorities as a matter of course' then the issue lies with your comprehension of what I wrote.

Thanks for the video. I missed the docking. The video also proves the woman wasn’t harassed at all as one of the supposed harassers (the man in purple) kept telling the other man to let her have the e-bike and then actually gave up his ebike for her.

You not only "missed the docking" but failed to establish any understanding of how Citi Bike rentals work or the facts of this specific situation before writing out a load of untrue guff in order to villainise the woman, and then doubled down on it.

You're now strangely arguing that the fact that one guy (and yes, he seemed lovely) stood up for her proves "the woman wasn't harassed at all" by the other guys?

@DojaPhat you said white women. You didn't caveat it as some, or a few, so I would take that to mean all. But as you say, perhaps it's my comprehension after all.

there is an established type of behaviour displayed by white women to the detriment of Black women and Black people more widely

@DojaPhat That’s such a sweeping system though. It’s like saying that Black men have an established type of behaviour that leads to their higher incarceration rates and longer prison sentences. Really? All of them?

We know that’s not true, just as it isn’t true that all white women exhibit behaviour detrimental to POC.

So one false accusation with no action taken, and one incident where an assault may have been racially aggravated. And from that, we are supposed to believe that, there is some systemic manipulation of the UK justice system by white women against black men, which gets black men killed?

There is a shed-load of racism in the justice system - another example just tonight. But blaming this on white women manipulating the system to bring down black men is pure fantasy - and pure misogyny.

I'd like some examples from other northern European countries, particularly those where women aren't generally given much sympathy for crying publicly. Ireland for example? Our police aren't armed (with some exceptions) either.

I didn’t double down on anything, I wrote her receipt showed she had rented the bike for one minute which was true. I was only wrong as to why she had rented it for one minute because I did not see the bike docked during the video I saw. That’s an honest mistake. And I admitted it as soon as I was shown a second video that had not been cropped which showed the bike light going out.

No one harassed this woman. She is screaming “Help me. please help me” and “Get off me” when she is in no danger whatsoever from this Black man (clearly white woman tears). No one is harassing her, if anything it is a case of mistaken bike serial # and she didn’t need to react in such a way that she couldn’t even speak to him as a human being. He has a hand on the bike and he is saying calmly “This is my bike. It’s on my account.” In the video she pushes on his arm repeatedly while screaming and at one point even snatches away his phone. He asks for it back and she eventually gives it back to him.

She’s totally in the wrong here in how she acted.

@Eastie77Returns completely agree.

so no need for white people to respond and complain that they definitely have been the victim of racism because (just listing one of the reasons I’ve seen on this board) they’ve been given dirty looks by Muslim men in a predominantly Asian area. That sounds terrible but it’s not racism

So what is it then? It's prejudice based on negatives racial stereotypes. So how is it not racism?

Systemic/institutional racism is one type of racism (and I agree that white people do not experience it in the UK) but it is not the only type.

Thanks for the video. I missed the docking. The video also proves the woman wasn’t harassed at all as one of the supposed harassers (the man in purple) kept telling the other man to let her have the e-bike and then actually gave up his ebike for her.

Nice that despite being so sure that you knew all about this incident, that you didn't actually have much of a clue, and are now moving the goalposts. Ah well.

That case went to court in January.

The court heard Antwon was part of a group of up to 30 children at the park, while Johnson was paddleboarding on the river with three children.

Some of the children were throwing balls of mud and rocks at those passing on the river, with these hitting boats, canoes and paddleboards. There is no evidence Antwon did this, the court heard.

Ehsanul Oarith, prosecuting, said an “agitated and visibly angry” Johnson confronted the group of children after her paddleboard was hit.

“She was up against Antwon Forrest, they were both making comments towards each other,” Oarith told the court.

“A witness saw them push each other, following which the defendant used the paddle in her hand to hit Antwon Forrest. She had clearly lost it, she was very, very angry at the time.”

The judge said, “I am satisfied it was not in any way racially motivated. I accept this was an impulsive act of violence.”

She got a suspended sentence. She also got death threats serious enough to need to move house and change jobs.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/12/woman-handed-suspended-sentence-for-paddleboard-assault-on-boy-in-bristol

I used to work in retail. White women, on the whole, cry more than anyone else. Black women are doomed, as they can't get angry without fear of being 'an angry black woman'. You can see the frustration, but they don't cry and society judges them more harshly when they get angry. I see it with my friend all the time, she only has to get slightly irritated and suddenly staff are saying she is 'abusive'.
A white woman cried in my shop because we ordered her granary instead of brown once by mistake. She came back the next day and sort of apologised, but blamed the fact that her recycling had blown all over the road in the night. Still sort of turned it around to it being our fault.

It's a bit ridiculous for her to cry over it, but yes it was your fault that you got her order wrong, wasn't it? How was it anyone else's?