Why is it socially acceptable to stereotype and vilify white women as a whole?

[TheTERFnextDoor]

I've seen this a lot recently, often from other white women bizarrely, and I don't understand why it's socially acceptable?

I think it goes without saying that in most groups, you get good and bad people. White women are surely no different in that respect? Yes, many of them are privileged, and they don't face the discrimination that other categories might. I accept that. However, that doesn't change the fact that they aren't some homogeneous mass of people, surely?

I am genuinely trying to learn here, so I'd appreciate all responses, particularly those that disagree

Yes, of course. As with white people in the UK, they will rarely encounter systemic or institutional discrimination, but they could certainly encounter prejudice from individuals.

It’s an interesting question. Society as a whole is weighted towards male interests and dominance so it doesn’t make sense on a societal level.

On the other hand, if a boy gets told that he isn’t allowed to take up sewing and needs to take an interest in motorcars to be a real man, then that sort of is sexist isn’t it?

So there are two sides, the societal side and the individual.

If, on the other hand, there was a large enough group of women controlling and dominating a society, where men were systematically excluded from power and control, men could experience ‘sexism’ there in both its forms.

Well, precisely.
A white friend of mine married an Asian man and had horrible strife from his mother because she was white.

That said, any minority in a given society is likely to experience more racism than a member of the majority.

Yes, the minority/majority thing plays a huge factor, which is very difficult to sexism where (in the absence of femicide) women are the majority.

*different not difficult

@EdithStourton Exactly. DH’s cousin lived in Japan for a while and became engaged to a Japanese man. She ended up breaking off the engagement due to the way she was treated by his family and friends. As a white woman, she wasn’t acceptable to them.

But that’s not racism, according to some posters?!

The thing is, I think the word ‘racist’ can be a bit crass.

There can be a difference between being protective of one’s cultural heritage, customs, wanting to maintain the status quo within the family, property inheritance, etc, so discouraging children from marrying outside it, and prejudice about a person because of their ‘race’. It’s insular and xenophobic but ‘race’ is perhaps not the key issue.

I also think that the work of EDI consultants in the last couple of decades has skewed things, so now we are starting to see racism against white people, even if that country is the majority white.

Maybe EDI has been so successful in some ways, and has had unintended consequences too, it is time to take a fresh look at things - including what we mean by sexism and racism and who can be perpetrate it or be affected by it. The needle has moved.

There can be a difference between being protective of one’s cultural heritage, customs, wanting to maintain the status quo within the family, property inheritance, etc, so discouraging children from marrying outside it, and prejudice about a person because of their ‘race’. It’s insular and xenophobic but ‘race’ is perhaps not the key issue

Protecting a cultural heritage etc may be an issue if you are part of a small minority, but it's not a factor if you are a Japanese person living in Japan. Very similar arguments about cultural heritage were used in the UK against "mixed" marriage.

If I said I didn't want my kids to marry someone from - say - Ghana, to protect my cultural heritage and customs, I would quite rightly be accused of racism.

My friend's granny from India, who tells her not to marry any "BMWs" (black, Muslims, whites) is also being racist.

Sexism against men could occur in a female-dominated environment. For instance young men being bullied or disparaged in a workplace full of women, with female managers.

tells her not to marry any "BMWs" (black, Muslims, whites)

I wasn’t thinking about that, something more akin to all the social engineering by marriages - often arranged they involve considerations like family and business alliances, common religion and beliefs, as well as class snobbery and racism.

With the Indian granny, if it was ‘make sure they are a Hindu with Indian heritage’ it would be closer to what I’m talking about.

I know a bloke who married a Japanese woman and he was taken aback that he was immediately given an executive role in a business, pure nepotism which would be totally frowned upon in western culture. Japan has such rigid customs I can imagine there would be a wariness about diluting them - especially if there are expectations that you give people decision-making powers in your business, if your children marry them.

Yes, I agree. There’s something about the power-balance.

The whole racial ideology system was created by white people. If a white person was the subject of racism even on an individual level, they would still have systemic power.

Even in an African or Asian country?

White people certainly did create a racial ideology, but that doesn’t mean that other ethnicities haven’t behaved similarly. It’s just uncomfortable to admit this.

@AnalogueFondness I do think it’s a form of racism and it would totally unacceptable for a white family to behave this way.

Out of interest, do you think Jewish people who don’t marry non-Jewish people are racist too?

I do know people IRL who’ve married into Jewish families and they’ve all converted to Judaism. They weren’t assumed to be unable to understand/fit in because they weren’t raised in the same faith.

Personally, I think it’s a slippery slope when people are automatically excluded due to cultural heritage and norms. I know it can happen, but is it desirable?

This circles back to the stereotyping and vilifying of white women. Mass assumptions and labels aren’t helpful or accurate.

Yes. I haven’t quite made up my mind about it. I think people should be free to stick to what is known and familiar without being vilified for it too, and a part of me would hate for human beings to become homogenous - so much culture and tradition would be lost in the process, so I think that tendency towards being insular helps maintain diversity.

I think if people want to chose to marry within their culture that is absolutely fine. It's your personal life and you're harming nobody, and entirely your own business.

However if a relative like your child choses their partner from outwith your culture and you exclude or abuse them and/or their spouse, that is a different issue.

I realise that this is a bit off topic now.

Thanks for the video. I missed the docking. The video also proves the woman wasn’t harassed at all as one of the supposed harassers (the man in purple) kept telling the other man to let her have the e-bike and then actually gave up his ebike for her.

Yes that’s the distinction I am sort of intuiting, but I think, say, if a British person (with British grandparents) who happened to be white, openly stated they wanted to marry within their own culture, they would be considered racist and harmful by a lot of people.

However if a relative like your child choses their partner from outwith your culture and you exclude or abuse them and/or their spouse, that is a different issue.

Absolutely. Many people find themselves sidelined at family gatherings and so on, don’t they?- and that is blatant racism.

I realise that this is a bit off topic now.

Yes but it’s obliquely relevant - eg- What is meant by racism? Can white people be victims of racism? Are there double-standards? Are white people sometimes being accuse of racism unfairly? Does this play into the vilification of white women?

Yes that’s the distinction I am sort of intuiting, but I think, say, if a British person (with British grandparents) who happened to be white, openly stated they wanted to marry within their own culture, they would be considered racist and harmful by a lot of people.

I'm kind of trying to get my head around this too. If I heard a WASP (for want of a better term) British person saying this, I probably would have a different reaction to say a Jewish or Japanese person... but why? And is that fair of me? I'll need to give it some more thought.

Yes. Same here.

The underlying understanding of race people in EDI have seems to be just another kind of race essentialism. Not so much different than the old scientific race essentialism of the 1900s. It's racist in the most basic sense of the word, and I suspect that it's inevitable that if many people take up that way of thinking, we'll see a real resurgence of raceism.

Really? Some white boy who grew up in care, is an addict, homeless, in and out of prison, is going to have systemic power "in the system"? What system is that, and what powers, specifically, is he going to be able to leverage because he is a white guy?

I don't think your post really makes sense. I'm a white woman so my criticisms or observations of other white women are not based on their demographic as white women. It would be based on something else, like not understanding intersectionality, or being transphobic, these are examples of things I see more generally attributed to white women so I have picked those out, but it could be anything.

As said by an earlier PP, it's not okay to vilify any group. Men, women, trans people, black people.

That's not necessarily the same as acknowledging social phenomena that might be attributed to a group of people, but nor is it necessarily not offensive to do that. It all depends on the context and the tone.

Sorry but there can be especially on here an absolute indignance and any criticism and I think sometimes it is useful to listen to other perspectives and understand where that criticism comes from. It seems like a bit of a knee jerk reaction to refer to any criticism as "vilification", but at the same time you didn't give any specific examples in your OP as to what you believe white women are vilified for and therefore it's hard to give more insight.

At the end of the day, social issues exist and I think it's important to not generalise groups and to treat everyone with empathy and humanity. That goes for critics who have genuine reason for their disquiet too.