Why is it socially acceptable to stereotype and vilify white women as a whole?

[TheTERFnextDoor]

I've seen this a lot recently, often from other white women bizarrely, and I don't understand why it's socially acceptable?

I think it goes without saying that in most groups, you get good and bad people. White women are surely no different in that respect? Yes, many of them are privileged, and they don't face the discrimination that other categories might. I accept that. However, that doesn't change the fact that they aren't some homogeneous mass of people, surely?

I am genuinely trying to learn here, so I'd appreciate all responses, particularly those that disagree

@AnalogueFondness no idea where you got any of that from. I offered a possible explanation/opinion formed from reading things, hearing things, witnessing things and talking to people. Rather than dismissing and minimising it all.

However, I will admit that it's extremely likely that plenty of men (especially those in power) are using and weaponising this rift for their own gains.

To continue along the lines of my 10.25 post. In fact, when all this ‘white feminist’ hate was being cooked up, and women who were white and concerned, saying “How can we help? What can we do?” they were met with an eyeroll, a huff and a contemptuous “We shouldn’t have to do the work for you”.

Yes, because it's all about scolding, not actions.

Yes. And there was a slight split amongst Black Feminists a while back, between ‘sisterhood’ feminists who felt that some separation was necessary to focus on the concerns of black women, but to then feed that knowledge back into a wider feminist movement, and the separatist black feminists who thought white feminists were ‘part of the problem’ (interestingly these women were often not of African, but an Asian middle class ethnicity - calling themselves ‘black’). This second set along with their ‘allies’ are the enthusiastic scolders.

Yip. There's no cure for white feminism. You just have to accept all charges and live with it.

Furthermore the second set were also the ‘trans inclusive’ group.

Indeed.

You know, this is the only simple and honest explanation but far be it from the white women of mumsnet especially the feminist board (NAWWALT 😉) to admit it and not pretend they have no clue they do the equivalent.

The faux ignorance and innocence isn't surprising and as usual, I can see the campaign to shut down criticism of white women has started and it will gain traction if they have any power, which they do. (See 'Racist Karen').

<You can @yourselves. Cba to respond to the usual hostility once a mirror has been held up>

"Karen" was first coined by an incel man on Reddit, to disparage his ex wife. It also isn't always used in racial terms, particularly in the U.K.

It's misogyny. As I said earlier, would it be appropriate to have a term identifying the race of different types of sexist/misogynistic men? If not, think about why that is.

Yes some people seem to vow that you will have to prise their misogyny out of their cold, dead hands.

Even women.

I live in Scotland and the only black people I know are a few fellow professionals who are parents at my sons school. I can't call out racism because I neither see nor hear it at any point in my daily life.

All my friends and work colleagues are white, none of them have ever cried (literally or metaphorically) over a black persons perceived wrongs.

I can't call out what I don't see. So I'm left with internet engagement where I am clearly unqualified to speak about black womens experience. I'll leave it to them as it's not my business.

Publishing houses etc like to make money and at the end of the day no man (well hardly any) is likely to buy a book called "white men's tears" or "Why you are a dreadful dreadful person". Women on the other hand absolutely will (not all). Self reflection/self criticism isn't a bad thing in itself. Apparently women as a group are slightly less prone to cognitive bias than men and being able to examine your own prejudices blah blah is important. But there is a point when it becomes self indulgent and counterproductive. But if women will pay 2,500 a head to be told they are awful there will always be someone willing to take their money.

All true. And look at how we protect men by speaking of their crimes in passive voice or simply not acknowledging their appropriation of women's labour and care.

"A women was stabbed/killed/set alight ..."
"An analysis of household labour over Covid showed that women did 80% of x task".

And when women do speak of men and name our oppression we are called ball-breakers, slags, Karens, libbers, hairy-legged feminists, wimmin's libbers and so so and told we must hate men.

I think about this type of thing when people on mumsnet insist you can't be racist towards white people. In Ireland(where I live) I don't know if UK people know we have a lot of travellers. It is accepted here by law that travellers are a distinct race, it is accepted here that travellers face a lot of racism. Racism here seems to mean a different thing than it does on the UK. Travellers here are seen as scum, people cross the road to avoid travellers, people don't want to live near travellers, employ travellers, have their children mix with travellers, travellers have a life expectancy that is far shorted than the rest of the population, don't achieve in education, aren't wanted in pubs/restaurants, the list goes on and on. Crime happens here and people dont look for black people to blame they look for travellers. The housing estates in the town i live in that have travellers living in them have garda cars driving in and out every day even the deathly quiet estates, the ones with no travellers in don't. And yes most Irish people can instantly tell traveller from non traveller by looking at them. And white traveller women? Lumping them in with this white women trope would just be absurd.

I just feel like there is so many gross generalisations on mumsnet based on posters own experiences like the poor white woman upthread who mentioned doing dodgy things and carrying a replica axe as a white woman. A white traveller in Ireland would get away with none of that. Being white isn't a magical shield for them like that poster seems to think.

As always, male violence is just the air around us, and doesn't invite comment. But if women can be blamed for male violence, they usually will be. This stuff goes back to the Old Testament.

Nail on head.

Exactly.

Second wave feminism did not pay much attention to the additional discrimination suffered by black women. Black women understandably challenged this and intersectionality theory (in the true sense) developed to understand it.

It is clearly true that, in white-dominated countries, white people of both sexes as a class have been/are involved in the discrimination that black people suffer.

However, it is banal, ahistorical and misleading to divide everyone into an Oppressor or Oppressed class.

As always, male violence is just the air around us, and doesn't invite comment. But if women can be blamed for male violence, they usually will be. This stuff goes back to the Old Testament.

Yes, I don't see many men hair-shirting over their patriarchal privilege.

I agree with some of these things but I have heard more black women say, that they experience more discrimination on account of race, than those that say gender is the dominant factor in their experience. I think it’s very easy for white women to close our ears to this because it implicates us. But I have seen posts on Mumsnet that cross over the line into telling black women what they should be concerned about.

So I think it’s enormously important to make the distinction between black women saying ‘actually we do have an issue with white women’s behaviour’ (yes, generally meaning not all white women, but why should they have to spell it out?) and men using it as an excuse for more misogyny. Which absolutely is happening.

I also agree with this.

In left circles 'white' performs the same function now as 'bourgeois' used to do: to label people or things as ideologically suspect.

Yup.

Yes I agree. Not sure what people mean when they say white people aren't victims of discrimination or racism. Tell that to Irish travellers and Eastern Europeans for example.