Why is it socially acceptable to stereotype and vilify white women as a whole?

[TheTERFnextDoor]

I've seen this a lot recently, often from other white women bizarrely, and I don't understand why it's socially acceptable?

I think it goes without saying that in most groups, you get good and bad people. White women are surely no different in that respect? Yes, many of them are privileged, and they don't face the discrimination that other categories might. I accept that. However, that doesn't change the fact that they aren't some homogeneous mass of people, surely?

I am genuinely trying to learn here, so I'd appreciate all responses, particularly those that disagree

We have always had white men tears. Is this the first time you are learning about this? The original term is white tears. Yes, both white men and white women can cry white tears in white majority societies with different impacts.

This concoction of a deluxe privilege purportedly enjoyed by ‘white women’ is just picking on women because women are an easy target to blame, shame and demonise. Misogynist spite and cruelty is a pleasurable pursuit for many, particularly since it seems that women are socialised like the Ameglian Major Cow in The Hitchhikers’ Guide To The Galaxy to serve ourselves up on a platter. https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/AmeglianMajorCoww^^ It’s misogyny.^

Yes, you only have to look at the success of that Race for Dinner thing linked above, lots of right-thinking women signing up to be scolded.

@HadalyEve the woman in question has provided receipts re the bike rental. She is a pregnant nurse who had just finished a shift at work.
And no it's not the first time I've "heard of any of this". How presumptuous.

It’s worth remembering that no one knows anyone else’s true ethnicity on here. I’d lay good money that some of the keenest proponents of white privilege on MN are themselves white. Some of them give off a strong Rachel Dolezal energy. I wouldn’t automatically defer to someone anonymous claiming to have lived experience of being black (or gay, female or anything else) on social media, whereas IRL I would.

It seems her receipt for the bike was only for 1 minute and so it looks like she was doing a bit of fraud too. Rent a bike one minute, get on and ride off and not pay for full rental time. Problem was her 1 minute rental expired before she could ride off and the young man had then rented the bike so it was his.

😂Because the guy forcibly docks her bike while she is on it! You actually see and hear it happen in the video. I don't think you can really blame her for only taking it for a minute when the guy forcibly ends her rental.

Its obviously not ok to vilify whole groups but if the topic is racism then its fair to acknowledge that women and men might exhibit racism in different ways and to have a way of expressing this.

I do agree that some men enjoy jumping on a chance to have a go at women in general though.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I think it’s another manifestation of oikiophobia , the besetting ‘sin’ of the progressive middle class.

(So little referred to that it isn’t recognised by spellcheck)

The way I see it, is that ‘dickishness’ is evenly spread throughout the species, yet there is a persistent myth, it seems to be intuitive, rather than taught when I think about it, that ‘oppressed’ people are morally superior to those of the oppressor class. It’s the Robin Hood narrative that appeals.

The truth is, virtue and vice are equally spread on both sides of the oppression divide, (in fact, oppression usually brings out the worst in people - the scarcity, the lack, the disrespect, the resentment, the feeling that fighting fair won’t get you anywhere so you have to fight dirty).

Many people on the oppressed side of the fence would gladly swap places with the oppressor on the other side. It’s not that they think oppression is intrinsically bad, they just don’t want to experience it personally.

then its fair to acknowledge that women and men might exhibit racism in different ways and to have a way of expressing this.

So it would be ok to acknowledge that different races of men exhibit sexism in different ways, and to have a way of expressing this?

Quite.

Bingo!!!!!

I think it mostly stems from the fact that black women were always expected to show up and fight on feminist issues, because they're women, but overwhelmingly when they requested the same support on black women issues (for example men get paid more than women, but white women get paid more than black women) they were generally told "sorry, it's nothing to do with US" or "we can't fix everything, let's bring the focus back to x".

That and a certain level of lack of understanding and acceptance of the issues black women face, their worries and fears etc does breed anger and resentment.

Comparing black female MP's with the white single mum is deflecting at it's finest, it's like saying America can't be racist because they had a black president, or that there's no sexism and patriarchy in the uk and comparing the Queen with the homeless male ex vet riddled with mental health issues.

Given a lot of the replies on this thread, I can see where they're coming from.

Your narrative doesn’t fit the facts. Woman rents bike for 1 minute, she arrives late to find her 1 minute rental has expired and another person has since rented the same bike.

If she had stopped her rental after 1 minute because of this man, then we would see her doing that with her phone at some point in the video which runs for 2 minutes. She would also stop claiming it was her bike.

Why are the comparisons only ever between white and black?

Her receipt showed she rented the bike for 1 minute per her lawyer. So her rental had expired.

Yes, said why don’t we have white mens tears? That’s not me being presumptuous, that’s me responding to your question saying you were ignorant of their existence. If you knew about them, then why did you pretend you weren’t?

I don’t tend to read articles about “White women’s tears”. I don’t find them particularly useful.

Much of what I’ve read to date is written by academics or journalists with backgrounds in social sciences etc and many of these writers are white women who berate other white women.

As I mentioned, the author is usually but not always white. Of course there are books and articles written by non white women that are critical of white women.

I think it mostly stems from the fact that black women were always expected to show up and fight on feminist issues, because they're women, but overwhelmingly when they requested the same support on black women issues (for example men get paid more than women, but white women get paid more than black women) they were generally told "sorry, it's nothing to do with US" or "we can't fix everything, let's bring the focus back to x".

So are you of the school of thought that it is isn’t just ‘White women’s tears’ which deserve ridicule, but ‘white feminists’ then?

She doesn't "arrive late"... The young man/boy has not rented the bike when the video starts.

4.40 on this video shows what actually happens. The guy's own sister stated that the video starts at 7.24.

I read Koa Beck's 'White Feminism' and wasn't convinced by it. Apart from the genderism, she seemed to confuse capitalist individualistic feminism with 'white feminism', as though white women can't practise any other sort, and all the practitioners of big business feminism are white. I see why she did it, because working for big corporations on a high salary is all she knows.

@daretodenim and @Clymene 👏👏👏 Nailed it.

It's interesting on the thread that there has been little mention of ageism, when that seems to be an enormous part of the dismissal and denigration of a large group (basically all women over 25, or younger if they are mums or are otherwise 'unattractive' from a patriarchal perspective).

Women have such little power really, and still most of it derives from husbands (whether socially or economically - how many wealthy women are in that position due to the wealth of husbands and fathers, rather than their own earnings?), that they are an easy target, when really the target should be the patriarchy.

Yup, not much offends me but this is just the nastiest bullshit.

Lots of women, white or not, will cry in certain circumstances. (And a few men too.)

The assumption that this is manipulative in white women is bizarre and deeply racist.

Yeah, there are sociopaths who will try and manipulate others with their emotions. There is no racial gap among sociopaths though.

In my opinion it’s to divide women as a whole. If all women got together and fought against inequality for women, all colours, all ethnicities, all races, we would be unstoppable.

As it stands, men can say “look, that white woman’s tears got that black man shot/fired/attacked,” conveniently avoiding who it is who actually does the shooting/dismissing/attacking. They are happy for white women to be blamed, because it doesn’t affect them in the slightest and they get to carry on with the status quo.

And I do worry that the emphasis on micro aggressions makes people scared to talk to each other. I’m not talking about touching people’s hair or asking them where they’re really from, they are obviously offensive. But whenever I meet someone who isn’t British (doesn’t matter what colour they are) I would love to ask them where their ancestors are from, simply because I am fascinated by different cultures, the world in general and am genuinely interested in people. Now I’m hesitant to ask this in case I cause offence. And yes, boo hoo, poor me, I understand that it’s not anyone’s issue to solve but my own. But I do think it limits friendly discourse where we can all learn from each other…

Within the feminist movement I think the race thing is like men’s involvement.

Some feminists say “why aren’t more men involved and fighting our corner?”

While others say “Don’t involve men, they’ll only take over, get ten times the recognition and praise for a small fraction of the work, and they’ll carry on oppressing us from inside the camp”.

Then any genuine men who show concern and interest will be met with a confusing ‘welcome’ - an unpredictable mix of hostility, gratitude, blame, aggressive questioning, humiliation, whilst being thrust forward as a spokesperson “because people will listen to you not us”, followed by suspicion and vilification for his male entitlement, for not passively allowing himself to be entirely controlled like a hand-puppet, to be put in uncomfortable situations that his puppeteers, (through their theoretical and un-tested reasoning), imagine is all easy, normal and par for the course for men. Very few people would be game for this extremely unpleasant role.

So is it for race. Just replace the word ‘men’ with ‘white women’.

@JamSandle I don't know. You could ask the poster who actually posted that comparison, I was just commenting on it.

It's still such a gross analysis though, I don't think it works.

Not all women are oppressed in all situations on the basis of sex. Sometimes it's an advantage. Similarly with other characteristics. If you are looking for a scholarship at my university, you are best off if you are black. Being "poor white trash" in some parts of the US is about as low as you can go socially. Etc.

The same person might be advantaged in some situation, disadvantaged in another, or mostly not really affected by that characteristic in most scenarios.

Class analysis is basically like statistical analysis, you may be able to say things about groups, but you can't apply that to individuals within the groups, except in terms of probabilities.

And even your analysis of the group depends significantly on how you divide up those groups. Can you really group everyone of the same "race" together, do they represent a real class? How far do you need to go in terms of your analysis? Can you talk about the difference between the median black household income and median white household income in the US without accounting for differences in median age? What happens when you control for educational attainment?

Theoretically you should be able to be that careful talking about class analysis I guess, but in practice, the only people I ever see being that careful don't use it in anything like the way most progressives do, and don't talk about things like privileged much either.