Why is it socially acceptable to stereotype and vilify white women as a whole?

[TheTERFnextDoor]

I've seen this a lot recently, often from other white women bizarrely, and I don't understand why it's socially acceptable?

I think it goes without saying that in most groups, you get good and bad people. White women are surely no different in that respect? Yes, many of them are privileged, and they don't face the discrimination that other categories might. I accept that. However, that doesn't change the fact that they aren't some homogeneous mass of people, surely?

I am genuinely trying to learn here, so I'd appreciate all responses, particularly those that disagree

Karen is being misused by many who have no right to use it and have no idea what it means.

A bit like the word woman.

If it’s being used as properly being a Karen is associated with the kind of middle class woman who demands to "speak to the manager" in order to belittle lower class service industry workers and carries out racist micro-aggressions, such as asking Black people if they live in their own home/neighbourhood or belong to the gym/pool (gatekeeping). But a predominant feature of the "Karen" stereotype is that they weaponise their relative privilege against Black people - for example, when making police complaints against Black people for minor or even - in numerous cases fictitious infractions by pretending their life is being threatened when they are in no danger whatsoever.

That just sounds like a misogynist's wet dream to me.

LangClegsInSpace · Today 09:17

HadalyEve · Today 09:06

^Ken
Google suggests Ken*.

Or maybe Greg, Terry, Chad, Chaz, Eric, Steve, Donald, Kevin, Craig or Richard.

Those are just the ones that show up on a snapshot of the top half of the first page of results. There are a multitude of suggestions because there is no male equivalent to 'Karen'.

Though not an exact equivalent of ‘Karen’, I thought Martin Amis’s ‘Keith’ represented a derogatory representation of a certain kind of fairly unthoughtful, bigoted, U.K. 1980s man.

Becky and Brad or Brad and Stacey are incel terms, invented by the incel community.

we never get to keep anything we invent for ourselves

So Hadaly, are you speaking as a member of the incel community?

To be honest, this is the first time I have heard the incel community and those claiming to be Black feminists online, are one in the same.

Makes sense though - sharing a common enemy- women: feminists - and using their skin colour as an excuse to berate them.

a racist society where white feminists especially have great difficulty admitting to any part in racism

Interesting.

So Hadaly, are you speaking as a member of the incel community?

I’m really intrigued who the “we” and “us” in Hadaly’s posts refers to.

a racist society where white feminists especially have great difficulty admitting to any part in racism

I'm more than happy to admit a part as a white person (although this is complicated in terms of my own identity) and within women's circles to listen to women about their structural disadvantage/intersectional oppression and to work with them regarding this.

What I am not prepared to do is believe that women regularly turn on the waterworks to get black men killed, demand to 'speak to the manager' (in the way suggested) go out of their way to deliberately belittle black shop assistants and so on.

And this "weaponise their relative privilege against Black people - for example, when making police complaints against Black people for minor or even - in numerous cases fictitious infractions by pretending their life is being threatened when they are in no danger whatsoever" is absolute screaming misogynist bollocks.

Funny how white men's alleged racism is not neatly packaged in the same way isn't it?

Let’s get this straight you are being “silenced and shut down” when you are called out on your misogyny, but feminists are “racist” if they complain about stereotyping being used to vilify them instead of just taking it on the chin?

An Asian man giving a white woman a dirty look may not actually have anything to do with her race. It could be something else entirely.

If it is, then it’s unpleasant and uncomfortable but it’s an example of her encountering prejudice, not racism. The two are separate. I’ve explained why I think that is the case but fine if you think otherwise as I know there is disagreement on this (even within the Black community!)

Eastie77Returns · Today 10:46
An Asian man giving a white woman a dirty look may not actually have anything to do with her race. It could be something else entirely.

If it is, then it’s unpleasant and uncomfortable but it’s an example of her encountering prejudice, not racism. The two are separate. I’ve explained why I think that is the case but fine if you think otherwise as I know there is disagreement on this (even within the Black community!)

If you make that distinction between prejudice and racism in the case of the Muslim man giving a white woman dirty looks, why would some cases of apparent racism against black people also not be due to prejudice?

I could give lots of examples of typical prejudices, but it would be offensive here really.

There is another thread about a man (male)- with a beard and male type clothing as it happened not that that is especially relevant - who is non-binary, being angry at a Zara shop assistant for not letting him into the women’s changing room. He asked to see the manager.

NB he is not being called ‘Karen’ though he ought to be.

I don't believe that every woman who feels uncomfortable has the 'right' to feel uncomfortable, as mentioned by previous posters. A homophobe may feel uncomfortable around same sex people kissing, a Muslim woman may feel uncomfortable around women dressed in bikinis. Yes I completely agree that women have reason to feel uncomfortable around men, possibly due to trauma. It's not ab excuse to react to that person, especially if they are reacting in a particularly heightened way due to that person being of a different race.
My dad is mixed and I see this all the time.

@porkpiesinthepark the point is that women don't owe anyone discomfort.

This

If a woman feels uncomfortable around males, then that’s to do with them being male. You are the one making it all about race. It’s not.

And she has every right to
feel the way she feels. You have no business policing a woman’s fears. Or tears.

I don't believe that every woman who feels uncomfortable has the 'right' to feel uncomfortable, as mentioned by previous posters. A homophobe may feel uncomfortable around same sex people kissing, a Muslim woman may feel uncomfortable around women dressed in bikinis. Yes I completely agree that women have reason to feel uncomfortable around men, possibly due to trauma. It's not an excuse to react to that person, especially if they are reacting in a particularly heightened way due to that person being of a different race.
My dad is mixed and I see this all the time.

My goodness. People don’t have the right to their own feelings, uncomfortable or otherwise now? Goodness gracious. I suppose they don’t have the right to their own thoughts either…

People, in my opinion, are perfectly entitled to feel whatever they feel. What no one has the ‘right’ to do, is to dictate to others what they must think or how they must feel.

Its psychopathically controlling to dictate what others feel or think.

How we act and behave is a different matter.

Women have the most to lose if ‘feelings’ are disallowed, because men collectively find a breadth of things appealing that women collectively find disgusting - especially sexual and violent things ie- “Don’t yuk someone else’s yum!”…. Some people find coprophelia, fighting, battle, war, torture, bestiality, ‘diaper-love’, S&M, etc, appealing, others are entitled to their own feelings of disgust at these things. Discomfort, disgust, fear, and other negative feelings are important self-preservation emotions, they inform us where our boundaries are. Making people feel ashamed and guilty about them will only serve to turn that person into a doormat.

I'd just like to point out that it's conveniently reductive to say that McWhorter's rejection of "wokeness" is mainly because it is counter-productive.

He also thinks it's objectively untrue, completely misrepresents the realities of race in the United States, is rather stupid, deeply racist in itself, and often a way for people to try and gain a personal advantage of some kind for themselves.

I would imagine if someone had accepted the idea of "white fragility" it might be rather uncomfortable to think, "gosh, maybe he's right and I was sucked into a foolish racist ideology" if his arguments seemed compelling.

But perhaps that's why there is this tendency to project and assume that those who agree with his analysis (which is certainly not unique to him, but he is one of the more prolific public commentators,) think that way because they feel too uncomfortable to admit their internal racism?

People, in my opinion, are perfectly entitled to feel whatever they feel. What no one has the ‘right’ to do, is to dictate to others what they must think or how they must feel.

How can anyone help what they feel, anyway? To take a non-racial example, I have a horror of those big disc ear piercings, to the point where I can't bring myself to look at them (don't ask me why - I'm fine with other piercings and body modifications). I can't help feeling like that, so whether I have the right to do so or not is irrelevant. It would be like telling me I don't have the right to feel cold when it's 20 degrees, or hungry 2 hours after I've eaten.

Oh, those ear plugs bother me too, and also the kind of piercings that are inserted under the skin like spikes that come out of your head or cheek.

I think maybe there is an uncanny element to them.

The original meaning of Karen was not racist. I’m afraid that this was a case of cultural appropriation in reverse. (There we’re actually iterations of Karen before the “I can’t believe she took the kids” memes as well, but the racist Karen is the most recent).

Hmm, can’t attach the image for some reason.

Karen is a term widely used to call out specifically racist behaviours by entitled privileged women. That use of it isn’t misogyny. It is YOU who is stereotyping by calling everyone who uses the term Karen a misogynist and assuming it is always being misused in an ageist and sexist fashion.

The term Karen is widely accepted and used with the definition I have posted as a slang term to describe a privileged middle class women behaving in a classist and racist manner towards mostly Black people.

The fact that others frequently misuse Karen is what white feminists should be fighting against, not claiming that all uses of Karen are misogyny because doing so is erasing and silencing the fact that entitled middle class women do act in classist and racist ways towards Black people. It whitewashes every Karen into a victim of misogyny even if she was actually being overtly racist.

I don’t hate women, I don’t accept racist behaviour by women. To say that me calling out racist behaviour by women using the widely accepted and recognised term of “Karen” is being a misogynist is in fact tone policing a Black woman speaking truth to power on the subject of racism. Im going to call a Karen when I see a Karen.

I see we still haven’t been given examples of white women in the UK using the power of their tears to unleash lynching parties

I think I’ll continue to conclude that it’s not a thing

For heaven’s sake won’t you please just let me use my negative stereotypes about women

you feminists are such downers! Stop going on about it and trying to make me think!

No we still have no evidence whatever I'm afraid, and it's been a while.