Why is it socially acceptable to stereotype and vilify white women as a whole?

[TheTERFnextDoor]

I've seen this a lot recently, often from other white women bizarrely, and I don't understand why it's socially acceptable?

I think it goes without saying that in most groups, you get good and bad people. White women are surely no different in that respect? Yes, many of them are privileged, and they don't face the discrimination that other categories might. I accept that. However, that doesn't change the fact that they aren't some homogeneous mass of people, surely?

I am genuinely trying to learn here, so I'd appreciate all responses, particularly those that disagree

I'm sorry, you want people to agree that white women in the UK regularly cry and cause (presumably) white men to form lynching parties rampaging through the streets of stoke on trent and you just want everyone to take your word for it?

does that seem like reasonable behaviour to you?

the earlier post about class and money being what brings access to power was so interesting

in amongst the received opinions from the not so deep thinkers, there are always gems. gotta love FWR

I’m forever seeing pregnant women starting confrontations with groups of men. Can’t move for it round here. Then staying Woolf when they touch their pregnant bellies and say they hope their babies are retarded. The violence of white women can’t be denied, I know if I see a white pregnant nurse I just know she’s looking out for trouble.

Nah that doesn't work. As a loathesome terf I'm routinely asked 'but this isn't happening! Where's your evidence?' and I... provide it. With my fingers on my phone.

Sure, I'd rather not have to be in this debate at all but I am, because of the injustice to women. It seems implausible, on the face of it, that male rapists are being put in female prisons and that women athletes are losing places to men. So it's fine to ask for clarification.

I find it implausible that women in the UK are using tears and false accusations to have black men harmed or killed. I'm sure if it is happening enough to make 'white tears' a serious concern then you could mention some resources?

I'd also like to know why it didn't happen in Rotherham or Rochdale. Groups of men from an ethnic minority were targeting and raping white girls for years. Shouldn't there have been mass lynchings? Instead, what actually happened is that those girls' tears were ignored, in part because of fears that anyone taking action would be accused of racism.

So how does that stack up with theory of white women's tears?

Indeed. EDI consultants scaremongering about the pitchfork crew actually adds to the oppression of women and girls.

I agree black men are more likely to be tasered (hopefully we can all agree police systemically racist) this is not good. You and all other posters as totally correct that being white makes you less likely to be arrested but then you go on and distract from that perfectly true and horrid fact with hyperbole and untruths:

IN THE UK

1. black men (or anyone) are not going to be shot by the police as the police aren’t armed (outside specific high profile circumstances)
2. black men are LESS likely than white men to be imprisoned - they are being given on average more benefit of doubt than white men

these are good things (well equal conviction rates relative to percentages of population is probably better). Claiming a load of untruths about shootings and convictions when it’s just not happening just results in people ignoring the whole argument.

Telling poor white working class northern boys that they have systemic privilege in a system that is statistically stacked against them in pretty much every way other than the police arrests stats is just going to create racial tension because it’s blatantly obvious to them that they are the deprived and marginalised. No one who looks or sounds like them or who comes from their areas is in a position of power, no one is giving them any benefit of the doubt. From my own experience due to migration patterns in these deprived northern communities you are much more likely to find the non-white folk in the local “positions of power” the GP/teacher/social worker may be the only BAME person they have contact with.

A poor black working class northern boy is going to do better academically than a poor white working class northern boy.

The white (poor working class) young man is more likely to be imprisoned than a black (poor working class) young man.

The white (poor working class) man is going to die younger than the black (poor working class) man.

police arrest stats and maternal outcomes are the other way round (clearly maternal outcomes not applicable to men)

. I can see it must rankle to have to be told to try and be grateful that the uk appears to slowly be becoming less systemically racist that it used to be (I can’t imagine how frustrating it is to feel that something that never should have been an issue (racism)that never should have happened (the triangular slave trade) is slowly so slowly improving in some areas. But it helps no one to continue to claim black men have worse outcomes when then don’t. And why all of this is the fault of middle class women I remain unclear (possible argument that the maternity outcomes could be)

Sorry@MissLucyEyelesbarrow my reply was meant for @crunchingupeyeballshohohoho who posted the taser comment that you quoted

No worries - I guessed it probably was 😀

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · Yesterday 20:42

A black man was accused of stealing from his own car by a white woman as he cleaned it on a street in Bristol.

Police in Bristol are treating an incident in which a white woman hit a 12-year-old black boy on the forehead with paddle as racially motivated after initially deciding not to prosecute.

The woman was arrested, but three weeks later an officer told the boy’s family that no further action was being taken because the alleged attacker said she had acted in self-defence and felt “threatened”

Re this last case:
After an outcry about the police’s decision, the police admitted their mistake in not having told the family they could appeal. The case was reviewed and the woman was prosecuted.

The court heard Antwon was part of a group of up to 30 children at the park, while Johnson was paddleboarding on the river with three children.

Some of the children were throwing balls of mud and rocks at those passing on the river, with these hitting boats, canoes and paddleboards. There is no evidence Antwon did this, the court heard.

Ehsanul Oarith, prosecuting, said an “agitated and visibly angry” Johnson confronted the group of children after her paddleboard was hit.

^“She was up against Antwon Forrest, they were both making comments towards each other,” Oarith told the court.
“A witness saw them push each other, following which the defendant used the paddle in her hand to hit Antwon Forrest. She had clearly lost it, she was very, very angry at the time.”^

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/12/woman-handed-suspended-sentence-for-paddleboard-assault-on-boy-in-bristol

Re: “ScrollingLeaves · Today 11:36”

For those who do not have time to read the Guardian article about the courts’s decision in this case of the raging woman hitting the twelve year old mixed-race boy on the head with a paddle, I forgot to say that the woman was found guilty of grievous bodily harm but not for having been racially motivated.

I think there is an element of misogyny in the current talk around Karens - it's an old trick to shut women up.

Having said that, I have also seen individual white women turn on the waterworks when accused of racism and once you see it you can't unsee it. I say that as a white woman myself.

The grooming gangs is actually a case where girls were targeted based on their ethnicity, and the men who did it were protected based on theirs.
I have noticed that certain sections of the left/progressives, when faced with the choice between white women and non-white men, will invariably favour the latter. Another good example is after the mass New Year's sexual assaults in Cologne, the Guardian had the most hideously victim-blaming opinion piece I have ever seen.

Now I'm not suggesting that this sector of the left holds all the systemic power by any means, but they are a prominent voice in the media, social media etc, and this is likely to be very alienating for working class communities who can see from their daily experience that they have it tough and that they're not in general prioritised. And this gives opportunities for the far right, individuals such as Tommy Robinson, to capitalise on the situation and exacerbate tensions. It's happening again in areas that are housing a high proportion of young male asylum seekers in hotels.

If you then go and tell someone from one of these areas that they are privileged, they will be outraged. If you tell them that they are racist by sheer dint of their existence, they'll be deeply offended.

I don't know what the answer is. I am absolutely not denying that racism and systemic disparities exist in the UK. I do question that they look exactly as they do in the US, and I do question if some of the current analysis around the issue is useful rather than potentially divisive.

turn on the waterworks

Interesting use of language. Is it unusual to react defensively, when accused of something socially unacceptable, whether or not the accusation is true? Are you saying that women should not feel defensive (wouldn't you?), or is it their way of expressing it that is wrong, in your view?

Women are generally socialised not to express anger (black women even more so). But, if they express anger or frustration in a way that is less confrontational, by crying, that is characterised as manipulative and even, according to other PPs on this thread, an attempt to get men killed.

So I am interested in what you think is the correct way for women to react to an accusation of racism? Or should they just accept it, because a woman's place is in the wrong?

@crunchingupeyeballshohohoho* · Today 07:43

amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/18/stunned-then-shocked-race-adviser-tasered-by-police-is-targeted-again

This happened in my hometown in 2018.
Not once, but twice.
The police in this country are as shockingly racist, ignorant and trigger happy as their US counterparts.
I work in a sector related to criminal justice and I see it.

The police’s behaviour to this black man was vile and shocking.

But why say the police n this country are as ‘trigger’ happy as the U.S. police? That is misleading given the U.K. police do not usually carry guns.

The U.S. police shoot people dead with live guns. This case was about a stun gun.

Oh god that Cologne piece. Written by a woman. Mentioning that the victims had iphones and the aggressors had nothing. Gaby Hinchcliffe I think it was.

I don’t think anyone is disputing whether racism is still a problem.

The dispute is over whether there is any other reason than pure misogyny (and intersecting inverse racism), for singling out women to be held responsible for it.

Having said that, I have also seen individual white women turn on the waterworks when accused of racism and once you see it you can't unsee it. I say that as a white woman myself.

I have genuinely never seen this. What do white men do?

I don’t think anyone is disputing whether racism is still a problem.

The dispute is over whether there is any other reason than pure misogyny (and intersecting inverse racism), for singling out women to be held responsible for it.

Absolutely.

Where is this epidemic of weeping women? Other than situations where it is normal to cry - funerals and being given bad news in hospital - I can't remember the last time I saw an adult cry.

Having said that, I have also seen individual white women turn on the waterworks when accused of racism and once you see it you can't unsee it. I say that as a white woman myself.

I have genuinely never seen this. What do white men do?

I would have said the same. But I've become more aware of it and seen in myself online and in person. A white woman being accused of racism, rightly, and instantly dissolving into tears rather than taking the accusation on board and doing better. It's a defense strategy and means no more dialogue can take place because the woman is crying.

White Tears, Brown Scars and Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race also talk about this.

It's a way of refusing to engage with racism or accusations of racism.
And yes 'turning on the waterworks' is possibly harsh but it's a strategy and I have seen it deployed. Racists are often pretty basic people.

I have never seen this but then I can't imagine a scenario where people frequently witness other people accused of racism in person?
Online yes, but that's a shitshow.

I would have said the same. But I've become more aware of it and seen in myself online and in person. A white woman being accused of racism, rightly, and instantly dissolving into tears rather than taking the accusation on board and doing better.

In person or online?

What do white men do when accused of racism?

Yes, in what context are there witnesses to this sort of accusation? If workplace, it would be a matter for HR and formal disciplinary processes.

A white woman being accused of racism, rightly, and instantly dissolving into tears rather than taking the accusation on board and doing better.
"When accused of witchcraft, she reacted like a witch, so we burned her"

I've become more aware of it and seen in myself online and in person. A white woman being accused of racism, rightly, and instantly dissolving into tears

I am seriously sceptical about this.

Firstly, when adults dissolve into tears, especially in the UK where we don’t ‘do’ emotion like some other countries, it’s a humiliating experience for them.

It sounds like an extremely stressful experience to be accused of something in front of witnesses, rightly or wrongly. Furthermore public accusations like this can often be a form of bullying.

What sort of people do you hang out with, what sort of online groups do you attend, where you, with increasing frequency, see grown adults reduced to tears by accusations of anything?

My DP was accused of racism at work by a client (he wasn't racist) and he went to HR and demanded it was retracted and removed from any documents. They did their own investigation and removed it.

He doesn't cry about work stuff, he just sorts it out. He was angry but not out of control or irrational.