Why is it socially acceptable to stereotype and vilify white women as a whole?

[TheTERFnextDoor]

I've seen this a lot recently, often from other white women bizarrely, and I don't understand why it's socially acceptable?

I think it goes without saying that in most groups, you get good and bad people. White women are surely no different in that respect? Yes, many of them are privileged, and they don't face the discrimination that other categories might. I accept that. However, that doesn't change the fact that they aren't some homogeneous mass of people, surely?

I am genuinely trying to learn here, so I'd appreciate all responses, particularly those that disagree

@AnalogueFondness I do judge a woman for being 'fearful' of a black man who is in the right.
Just as I judge the woman who called the police on my friends black seventeen year old autistic son for just 'being' in a park.
Just as I judge the school for calling another mum 'aggressive' for using exactly the same 'tone' as lots of white mums use every day.
And you should judge them too

I never judge a woman for being afraid of a man.

To do so is misogynist.

That is not logical. It does not follow.

That is total non-sequitur. Explain to me how you think that is the logical consequence of my point. You can't, can you?

All your side of the argument seems to have are non-sequiturs, attempts to shut down the debate on the basis of your stated identity, and wild accusations, which you cannot prove.

I don’t disagree that systemic racism is still in place in the uk. The police appear from the statistics to be a shocking example. In my own profession while the day to day work is very diverse the regulator is really really racist.

No longer are the people in charge just white men though. We have a non white prime minister, a non white non male Home Secretary (the person in charge of the police) and she’s not the first in that role. Out of the top five jobs in the country 3/5 are non white and 1/5 is female.

What none of them are is from a poor background, working class, a normal state school or the top half of the country. Oxbridge elites all of them. My conclusion on the levers of power in the UK is that your skin colour dosent matter. How much money your family has does, your class does. As historically white people were the monied landed elite in the uk they remain generally over-represented in the halls of power but that is changing as wealth distribution changes. Privilege is for purchase in the UK.

On the one hand I am happy that Change is happening. The structures of power are changing. That the uks first non white prime minister strolled in without a massive public backlash due to his race. That skin colour is not barrier to ones achievements in the UK as long as ones daddy is rich and you go to the right school. On the other hand I’m upset that the representation of people from the most deprived groups (the poor working class regardless of skin colour) are less likely to achieve social mobility than they were when I was a child. I’m also v angry at those institutions like the police who just can’t or won’t change - the courts, education and government structures have done. What the f is wrong with the police (don’t think it’s women’s fault tho)

I would actually go further to say that it isn’t just unsisterly and misogynistic to have no empathy with a pregnant woman who is scared and panicked when in close proximity to men who disagree with her.
I would say that if that lack of empathy, accompanying judgement, and cartoonish stereotyping is racially motivated - ie the skin colour of the panicked woman, is the reason she is being judged in a dehumanised way, then this is an example of racial prejudice.

What is the saying? “Take that plank out of your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from mine”.

Regarding autistic people getting the police called. This can happen to anyone, irrespective of their skin colour particularly high-needs autistic or learning disabled men, because they often break social norms.

When I was in the local pool with my kids when they were small, there was a group of people with learning disabilities there. I didn’t want to cause unnecessary fear in my kids, but there was one guy and he was big and strong, suddenly flailing about - he seemed sweet-natured, unabashedly loving being in the water - I could also see his carer was on edge, because he knew he didn’t have the physical strength to control the situation if something unpredictable happened. So I tactfully gave them a wide berth.

It’s really unfortunate that I couldn’t be all oblivious to disability as I’d like to be in an ideal world, but with that unpredictable element, safety has to come first. Also, some people with autistic kids, sons in particular, are scared of their own children.

I would say those are fine words for someone who has stated on this thread that they didn’t watch ANY video footage of the incident they are pontificating about.

btw, the woman is being judged on the basis of her behaviour. Behaviour you haven’t even bothered to watch:
Regarding all these shaky video footage things, I don’t think society as moved forward in a healthy way, where we are all becoming judge jury and executioner from the comfort of our sofas. So I don’t tend to watch them - a lot is staged, a lot is cropped. I am also often sceptical- who is the person filming? They aren’t seen, but are they influencing the situation in some way off camera? With the ‘bike mix up’ footage, as soon as I heard she was pregnant- I give a woman some leeway to be fearful and irrational. Again I didn’t watch- someone showed me a bit but I couldn’t make out what I was looking at.

Yes, I watched some footage and got one fact wrong as a result of cropping by NBC news channel, but I quickly corrected myself when shown better footage.

But to ignore all footage and just go with the pregnant white woman is always right because it’s “sisterly” and claim anyone criticising her behaviour which you haven’t even bothered to look at is doing cartoonish stereotyping [which] is racially motivated - ie the skin colour of the panicked woman, is the reason she is being judged in a dehumanised way, then this is an example of racial prejudice is absolutely laughable.

Calling out her overt racism isn’t being prejudiced or misogynistic.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow
All your side of the argument seems to have are non-sequiturs, attempts to shut down the debate on the basis of your stated identity, and wild accusations, which you cannot prove.

Wow: ‘your side’. more lazy homogenisation. And divisiveness. And hypocrisy.

Do you actually believe that being a white ally and supporting women’s rights are mutually exclusive.

I was shown some footage of the incident - I haven’t sat down and studied it, I couldn’t really make out what was happening- I had the impression of a tense woman among a group of men and a disagreement. She seemed like a cornered animal. I know I wouldn’t like to be in her shoes.

You can't answer the question, so you're going for more word salad, with a soupçon of ad hominem.

her overt racism

Please can you tell me where her ‘overt racism’ was in the footage @HadalyEve?

Did she make any kind of racial slur or reference to the skin colour of the men at all?

I’m sure if she had referenced the men’s skin colour or used a racial slur we would have heard about it by now.

You can't answer the question, so you're going for more word salad, with a soupçon of ad hominem.

I misread your quote of as saying violence towards ‘black’ males. When I re-read the word black wasn’t there.

how about answering my question about white allies?

crunchingupeyeballshohohoho · Yesterday 04:29
A lot of you are missing the point.
Privilege is not saying easy life or without struggle but that people do not see that and judge you on it from the outside. Someone upthread mentioned white mum going to food banks vs wealthy black MP, well the black MP may well get the police called on them for knocking on a strangers door in a wealthy neighbourhood

Re “ well the black MP may well get the police called on them for knocking on a stranger’s door in a wealthy neighbourhood*

@crunchingupeyeballshohohoho I wonder if you would please give links to any incidents of this happening in the U.K?

The problem comes down to millions of people CONSTANTLY giving white people the benefit of the doubt. Like this woman, let's give her the benefit of the doubt because she's pregnant and like us and 'don't we all remember what it's like to be pregnant and hormonal?' No, I can't remember acting a victim when I was in the wrong when I was pregnant.
Black men do not, on the whole, get given the benefit of the doubt. They get shot, or imprisoned or tasered.
As a white woman, I'm pretty sure that I could go into a store, forget to pay for something, get caught and get away with it. Knowing that we have this privilege is part of the 'white women's tears' concept.

The question is how does the concept of white women's tears effect you negatively in your day to day existence? And how does racism effect the day to day lives of black women and men?
I would rather fight for those who are more effected.
Being a woman is hard. But being a woman of colour is harder.

I give black men the benefit of the doubt.

Look this constant demanding of evidence is killing me. Screams of ‘I don’t believe this is actually happening’.
Everything deflected back to misogyny.
Derision of the white allies movement.

I’m out.

I’m sure most people on this thread give black men the benefit of the doubt. Just as I’d hope they’d give a pregnant woman the benefit of the doubt, whatever her skin colour.

I believe that everyone should support human rights for all groups, including the dismantling of systemic and institutional discrimination (I have acknowledged many times on this thread that black people experience systemic and institutional racism).

I don't believe in allyship for any group (including male allies for feminism) in the sense of being required to adhere to a certain set of beliefs, in order to be deemed a worthy ally. It's too simplistic and it frequently requires me to sublimate my own interests as a woman.

Now I have answer your question, perhaps you could answer mine, which was how you could read my earlier comment as meaning that a black woman could not defend her son? Otherwise it's going to be pretty obvious that you can't.

Tactics of throwing wild accusations, then, when they are challenged, moving on to some other accusation to distract may work on Tik-Tok, but do not withstand critical analysis.

Black men do not, on the whole, get given the benefit of the doubt. They get shot, or imprisoned or tasered.

That is absolutely true. But how does throwing unsubstantiated accusations at a white woman make that better?

her overt racism

Please can you tell me where her ‘overt racism’ was in the footage @HadalyEve?

I'd like to know this too.

I think I'd likely react exactly the same way if treated by any man trying to intimidate me and take something off me.

Where was her racism?

I think his behaviour was intimidating trying to take something off' her and nasty (he said he hoped her baby would be retarded.)

I think he was the racist then using her skin colour to attack her understandable reaction. That is racism.

Ah yes, we should just believe that white women are crying to kill black men with no evidence and, if we don't we're all a bunch of racists.

I looked these up on your recommendation. Race to Dinner sounds deeply dubious. They admit that they know white men won't tolerate being berated but middle class white women will, so charge them 2.5k for the privilege?

I despair. We'll get nowhere in anything until people stop thinking bullying and haranguing others is the way forward.

I think the argument is that it is okay to avoid giving women the benefit of the doubt and acceptable to stereotype and caricature her distress in the presence of hostile men, if she is white, because of systemic racism - ie - systemic racism requires a scapegoat and white women are appropriate for that role.