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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New British Cycling trans policy

677 replies

PoshCoffee · 25/05/2023 19:03

The new British Cycling policy goes public at 11am tomorrow. Anyone dare to speculate on the outcome? Will it be a win for women?

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44
SirChenjins · 26/05/2023 16:07

GrinAndVomit · 26/05/2023 16:04

I don’t think fairness is a genuine concern. Just an easier win and the rewards that brings.

Of course it’s not - we all see through Emily and his intentions perfectly.

Perhaps he needs to start identifying as black if he’s upset at cycling being a ‘whitest’ sport. Go on, Emily - I dare you.

Tomlitoo · 26/05/2023 16:07

BaronMunchausen · 26/05/2023 16:04

Way off the mark about cycling being the 'whitest' sport - has he seen sailing? Rowing? Canoing? Archery? Clay pigeon shooting?

Mind you, isn't sailing gender-neutral?

It's a predominantly white country anyway, im black but absolutely not offended that a sport in a country that is mostly white is mostly white (although I am going to take a guess that s/he has no idea whether that's reality and is just having a tantrum).

DarkDayforMN · 26/05/2023 16:20

Mermaids tell everyone s'not fair.

And the gnomes are also unhappy.

Bunnycat101 · 26/05/2023 16:21

I think sky news are trolling with the mermaids commentator.

TonTonMacoute · 26/05/2023 16:29

viques · 26/05/2023 15:36

Nearly right! Bridges was competing successfully pre transition, but an accident put paid to their international ranking in the male competitions, but because there is a huge discrepancy between male and female timings EB as a poorly ranked man was still ahead of most elite female competitors . So they transitioned, hoping to race as a trans woman in womens races. Bridges is on record as saying that they had always intended to transition post Paris Olympics ( high hopes of a medal). But there doesn’t seem to be much if any evidence, that this was said before the accident. The answer to the question I think a lot of people would like to know is , if Bridges hadn’t had the accident would they still be riding as a man?

Ah, thanks for this.

I am quite a keen cycling fan but had only seen this reported in the msm, and they missed out half the story!

EBs petulant response to this decision is unreal, frankly, it plumbs whole new depths of entitlement.

CaveMum · 26/05/2023 16:29

The example of equestrian sport is often touted as an example of sex equality, but when you dig down further it’s not as “equal” as it seems:

Statistically speaking, far more women/girls ride than men/boys at a social level, which you would think would translate to the competition sphere, but at the upper echelons of the various disciplines men tend to dominate. This can probably be put down to social factors - female riders are more likely to take time out to have children, or have other caring responsibilities, which impact on training and competition.

Disclaimer, I work in the equine sport industry so have skin in the game!

oakleaffy · 26/05/2023 16:31

Good men would never seek to cheat by saying they are women to gain sporting advantage- It’s ridiculously unfair.
I hope British Cycling sees fairness and sense.

georgarina · 26/05/2023 16:32

SidewaysOtter · 26/05/2023 12:26

This is the thing I have long since been unable to work out. Why - WHY - does any criticism translate as "We want you dead"?

You want to dress as a woman and call yourself Marjorie, crack on. But being told you still can't do certain things, regardless of your preferred identity, is not genocide or violence or eradication...so why the hell do they think it is?

It's just like a stroppy teenager responding to being punished for not cleaning their room by saying 'Well, SORRY I WAS BORN.'

GarethSouthgatesWaistcoat · 26/05/2023 16:33

GrinAndVomit · 26/05/2023 15:57

The official line is that there wouldn’t be enough funding or competition for such a small cohort of the population to have their own category.
I’d also consider the fact that it is exclusively males entering and dominating women’s sports which is the issue. They’re winning big prizes while having a huge advantage. Not so for any trans men who compete in men’s sports.
In short, opening up trans categories would not provide those males with the required funding and validation. It only impacts the females negatively. Which, historically, people have not really given a shit about.

It would also give mediocre men and women a chance at equivalent prize money to elite athletes. Two separate amounts if there are separate categories for transmen and transwomen. Presumably equal to the elite men's and women's prizes, due to 'equality'.

I have no idea how this would be funded. Whether the prize money would be lowered for the elite men's and women's categories to accommodate it? Sponsorships could be more difficult to come by if they're shared across four categories. At first I thought fewer companies would be interested in sponsoring the smaller, less competitive, less viewed (sponsorships are advertising, after all) trans categories however it's pretty clear companies are falling over themselves to broadcast their inclusiveness and elevate their DEI/ESG scores, business sense be damned.

At that point what's to stop elite men and women identifying into the appropriate trans categories if the prize money is the same and the chance of dominating much higher? A reverse EB if you will. You can just imagine the absolute tantrums it would provoke 👀

georgarina · 26/05/2023 16:37

NotBadConsidering · 26/05/2023 12:55

Yes, you’ve missed the element of Validation, which is actually what matters. A male who identifies as a woman competing in the women’s competition has his identity as a woman validated by doing so. It tells the world “yes, this person is officially a woman!” To have another category that they compete in is to officially acknowledge the reality that they’re not women. And they don’t want that. They hate that.

So the Validation matters more than any impact on women.

Interestingly transmen athletes seem to be able to do without this validation

zibzibara · 26/05/2023 16:38

Full statement by Emily Bridges if anyone wants to read it as text rather than Instagram post:

British Cycling has just banned us from racing. This was to be announced at 11 am today, but I'm done with this whole conversation being on their terms, and being controlled by them.

They have no authority to control this conversation anymore. Does it surprise me that the same organisation funded directly by a state that ships vulnerable refugees to Rwanda, violently clamps down on any political dissent that they disapprove of, or starves their people? No, of course, it doesn't. The same organisation with actively homophobic coaches, who encouraged eating disorders and did nothing about any bullying between its riders. The same organisation where elite riders influence their policy when it doesn't fit their entitled and narrow worldview, with no ability for nuance or any desire to question the view that they've been told since birth. Journalists have been circling like vultures at a corpse for the last few days, gagging at the opportunity for a story or comment. British Cycling is a failed organisation, the racing scene is dying under your watch and all you do is take money from petrochemical companies and engage in culture wars. You don't care about making sport more diverse, you want to make yourself look better and you're even failing at that. Cycling is still one of the whitest, straightest sports out there, and you couldn't care less.

This is a violent act. When the government is expressing admiration towards Ron Desantis' fascist state which kidnaps children, and is itching to pass legislation to ban us from public life, this is a violent act. British Cycling are supporting this, they are furthering a genocide against us. Bans from sport is how it starts, look at what is going on in America. It starts with sports bans, then youth and general healthcare and then bans from public life through bathroom bans. Just look at the situation, and who is on your side. When literal Nazis, conspiracy theorists and those who want our eradication are on your side, surely that should give you pause?

I agree that there needs to be a nuanced policy discussion and continue to conduct research, but this hasn't happened. Research isn't being viewed critically, or any discussion about the relevance of the data to specific sports. Any discussion is inherently political and driven by bad faith actors, and the whole discussion is framed by the media who are driven through engagement by hate and funding from far-right ultra-capitalists. I've given my body up to science for the last two years, and this data will be out soon. There is actual, relevant data coming soon and discussions need to be had.

I know a lot of people will think I'm being dramatic, or overplaying how scary things are at the moment. I'm having to consider an exit plan from this terrible island and figure out what point enough is enough. It terrifies me to exist at the moment. I have friends getting hate crimed all the time, and my reality is that I can't look ahead to the future or make plans because I don't know if I'll be allowed to live that long. Do you have any idea what that does to someone psychologically? To constantly see your existence being put up for debate, and the other side openly calling for our eradication? I don't even know if I want to race my bike any more, the danger and everything that would come with racing makes it a pretty hard thing to justify to myself. But you have no right on telling me when I am done. This is my decision and mine alone.

Yeah, I might be speaking strongly at the moment, but this is my reality right now. It is literally a fight for survival for me and my family at the moment.

I hope the media have fun cherry-picking quotes from this and making me look hysterical.

Emotionalsupportviper · 26/05/2023 16:38

Helleofabore · 26/05/2023 11:01

Excellent news indeed.

Though I bet there'll be tears before bedtime, as they all weep about being "banned from the sport they love" 🙄

I think what is now needed to to have the new "women's" records expunged, as no woman is ever likely to rival a TW's time - and credit given to the women who really won those races.

Emotionalsupportviper · 26/05/2023 16:39

zibzibara · 26/05/2023 16:38

Full statement by Emily Bridges if anyone wants to read it as text rather than Instagram post:

British Cycling has just banned us from racing. This was to be announced at 11 am today, but I'm done with this whole conversation being on their terms, and being controlled by them.

They have no authority to control this conversation anymore. Does it surprise me that the same organisation funded directly by a state that ships vulnerable refugees to Rwanda, violently clamps down on any political dissent that they disapprove of, or starves their people? No, of course, it doesn't. The same organisation with actively homophobic coaches, who encouraged eating disorders and did nothing about any bullying between its riders. The same organisation where elite riders influence their policy when it doesn't fit their entitled and narrow worldview, with no ability for nuance or any desire to question the view that they've been told since birth. Journalists have been circling like vultures at a corpse for the last few days, gagging at the opportunity for a story or comment. British Cycling is a failed organisation, the racing scene is dying under your watch and all you do is take money from petrochemical companies and engage in culture wars. You don't care about making sport more diverse, you want to make yourself look better and you're even failing at that. Cycling is still one of the whitest, straightest sports out there, and you couldn't care less.

This is a violent act. When the government is expressing admiration towards Ron Desantis' fascist state which kidnaps children, and is itching to pass legislation to ban us from public life, this is a violent act. British Cycling are supporting this, they are furthering a genocide against us. Bans from sport is how it starts, look at what is going on in America. It starts with sports bans, then youth and general healthcare and then bans from public life through bathroom bans. Just look at the situation, and who is on your side. When literal Nazis, conspiracy theorists and those who want our eradication are on your side, surely that should give you pause?

I agree that there needs to be a nuanced policy discussion and continue to conduct research, but this hasn't happened. Research isn't being viewed critically, or any discussion about the relevance of the data to specific sports. Any discussion is inherently political and driven by bad faith actors, and the whole discussion is framed by the media who are driven through engagement by hate and funding from far-right ultra-capitalists. I've given my body up to science for the last two years, and this data will be out soon. There is actual, relevant data coming soon and discussions need to be had.

I know a lot of people will think I'm being dramatic, or overplaying how scary things are at the moment. I'm having to consider an exit plan from this terrible island and figure out what point enough is enough. It terrifies me to exist at the moment. I have friends getting hate crimed all the time, and my reality is that I can't look ahead to the future or make plans because I don't know if I'll be allowed to live that long. Do you have any idea what that does to someone psychologically? To constantly see your existence being put up for debate, and the other side openly calling for our eradication? I don't even know if I want to race my bike any more, the danger and everything that would come with racing makes it a pretty hard thing to justify to myself. But you have no right on telling me when I am done. This is my decision and mine alone.

Yeah, I might be speaking strongly at the moment, but this is my reality right now. It is literally a fight for survival for me and my family at the moment.

I hope the media have fun cherry-picking quotes from this and making me look hysterical.

What drivel!

Meixo · 26/05/2023 16:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ArabeIIaScott · 26/05/2023 16:42

georgarina · 26/05/2023 16:32

It's just like a stroppy teenager responding to being punished for not cleaning their room by saying 'Well, SORRY I WAS BORN.'

To be fair to stroppy teenagers, that does at least come from an arguable position of logic. If they're arguing with a parent, they can legitimately argue the parent is responsible for their existence.

BaronMunchausen · 26/05/2023 16:42

Tomlitoo · 26/05/2023 16:07

It's a predominantly white country anyway, im black but absolutely not offended that a sport in a country that is mostly white is mostly white (although I am going to take a guess that s/he has no idea whether that's reality and is just having a tantrum).

I think Bridges was talking in that case about cycling in general, globally - but probably had the US TRA cribsheet in front of him. African-Americans are under-represented (may have been using African-American representation in other sports as a benchmark), but there are quite a few black cyclists from Africa.

TheShellBeach · 26/05/2023 16:42

I know a lot of people will think I'm being dramatic

He's not wrong there.

Meixo · 26/05/2023 16:43

zibzibara · 26/05/2023 16:38

Full statement by Emily Bridges if anyone wants to read it as text rather than Instagram post:

British Cycling has just banned us from racing. This was to be announced at 11 am today, but I'm done with this whole conversation being on their terms, and being controlled by them.

They have no authority to control this conversation anymore. Does it surprise me that the same organisation funded directly by a state that ships vulnerable refugees to Rwanda, violently clamps down on any political dissent that they disapprove of, or starves their people? No, of course, it doesn't. The same organisation with actively homophobic coaches, who encouraged eating disorders and did nothing about any bullying between its riders. The same organisation where elite riders influence their policy when it doesn't fit their entitled and narrow worldview, with no ability for nuance or any desire to question the view that they've been told since birth. Journalists have been circling like vultures at a corpse for the last few days, gagging at the opportunity for a story or comment. British Cycling is a failed organisation, the racing scene is dying under your watch and all you do is take money from petrochemical companies and engage in culture wars. You don't care about making sport more diverse, you want to make yourself look better and you're even failing at that. Cycling is still one of the whitest, straightest sports out there, and you couldn't care less.

This is a violent act. When the government is expressing admiration towards Ron Desantis' fascist state which kidnaps children, and is itching to pass legislation to ban us from public life, this is a violent act. British Cycling are supporting this, they are furthering a genocide against us. Bans from sport is how it starts, look at what is going on in America. It starts with sports bans, then youth and general healthcare and then bans from public life through bathroom bans. Just look at the situation, and who is on your side. When literal Nazis, conspiracy theorists and those who want our eradication are on your side, surely that should give you pause?

I agree that there needs to be a nuanced policy discussion and continue to conduct research, but this hasn't happened. Research isn't being viewed critically, or any discussion about the relevance of the data to specific sports. Any discussion is inherently political and driven by bad faith actors, and the whole discussion is framed by the media who are driven through engagement by hate and funding from far-right ultra-capitalists. I've given my body up to science for the last two years, and this data will be out soon. There is actual, relevant data coming soon and discussions need to be had.

I know a lot of people will think I'm being dramatic, or overplaying how scary things are at the moment. I'm having to consider an exit plan from this terrible island and figure out what point enough is enough. It terrifies me to exist at the moment. I have friends getting hate crimed all the time, and my reality is that I can't look ahead to the future or make plans because I don't know if I'll be allowed to live that long. Do you have any idea what that does to someone psychologically? To constantly see your existence being put up for debate, and the other side openly calling for our eradication? I don't even know if I want to race my bike any more, the danger and everything that would come with racing makes it a pretty hard thing to justify to myself. But you have no right on telling me when I am done. This is my decision and mine alone.

Yeah, I might be speaking strongly at the moment, but this is my reality right now. It is literally a fight for survival for me and my family at the moment.

I hope the media have fun cherry-picking quotes from this and making me look hysterical.

They are acting very hysterical considered they acted hatefully inserting themselves into women's only sports so they can win. The mens category is open so they can compete there.

nothingcomestonothing · 26/05/2023 16:44

Bridges' statement is a perfect example of what can happen when you exist in an echo chamber. I'm sure Bridges thinks it's a great statement, and is puzzled by the response of those of us who live in the world and realise that other people are real and we are not the universe's main character. Though on reflection, Bridges probably just puts any negative response down to the hateful transphobia infesting this terrible country.

BenCoopersSupportWren · 26/05/2023 16:44

Meixo · 26/05/2023 16:43

They are acting very hysterical considered they acted hatefully inserting themselves into women's only sports so they can win. The mens category is open so they can compete there.

Testerical.

GarethSouthgatesWaistcoat · 26/05/2023 16:45

Unsurprisingly it's going down badly on Reddit. Lots of stropping, sulking and false equivalences. The most popular threads have been locked by shrieking mods due to 'overwhelmingly bigoted responses'. When I skimmed there was nothing of the sort, even allowing for deleted posts, it was fairly even discussion (for a change) and the most extreme false equivalences had been downvoted.

DarrellRiversCriminalBehaviourOrder · 26/05/2023 16:45

I hope the media have fun cherry-picking quotes from this and making me look hysterical.

You'll be lucky that they do, Bridges. I've read it in full and you look even more deranged that way. It's like Prince Harry's memoir. You heard the salacious bits, they sounded loony, you read the whole thing so as to get the proper context and it just made it worse.

TheShellBeach · 26/05/2023 16:48

DarrellRiversCriminalBehaviourOrder · 26/05/2023 16:45

I hope the media have fun cherry-picking quotes from this and making me look hysterical.

You'll be lucky that they do, Bridges. I've read it in full and you look even more deranged that way. It's like Prince Harry's memoir. You heard the salacious bits, they sounded loony, you read the whole thing so as to get the proper context and it just made it worse.

And even Prince Harry's memoir is only 1p on Amazon now.

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