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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Helen Webberley Gender GP urges Dr Hillary Cass to adopt WPATH standards of care

103 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 16/05/2023 17:38

https://www.gendergp.com/dr-helen-webberley-open-letter-dr-cass/

'the World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH) has published their Standards of Care version 8.These give very clear and evidence-based recommendations on how to care for transgender people. These recommendations were jointly published by 130 international experts coming together to share their knowledge and expertise and having evaluated the research.
These should be immediately adopted to form the core standards of care that is provided in the UK rather than allow the current UK specialists, who did not take part in the development of these standards, to reestablish their own protocols and care pathways.
One of the allegations that the GMC made against me was that I had failed to follow WPATH guidance, and that of the Endocrine Society. These allegations were not found proved but during their determinations, the Tribunal found ‘that WPATHSOC7 has the status of peer-reviewed expert guidance.’ To not adopt this guidance puts our UK doctors at risk of criticism by their regulator.
The MPTS also found that the University of San Francisco and California (UCSF) Guidelines ‘had the status of peer-reviewed expert guidance’. It was, in other words, ‘the practice accepted as proper by a responsible body of medical men skilled in that particular art’.’ (Para 223)
The WPATH SOC8 and the Endocrine Society Guidelines 2017 and the UCSF Guidelines endorse the use of puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones* after having extensively reviewed the literature. I see absolutely no reason why you cannot recommend that UK clinicians adopt these excellent guidelines, and start providing care to these patients, today.'
...
'by all means evaluate the data to inform future best practice, but do not withhold care pending your research programmes.'
...
'you are ignoring adopted best practice from across the world. Trans children are dying, and something needs to be done. Today.'

*and also suggest treatment to affirm 'eunuch' gender.

Open Letter to Dr Cass

Dr Helen Webberley responds to Dr Cass' journal entry letter. She explains the potential harms Dr Cass' approach could have on young transgender people.

https://www.gendergp.com/dr-helen-webberley-open-letter-dr-cass

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MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 19/05/2023 09:42

ArabeIIaScott · 19/05/2023 09:40

That's a really interesting insight, MissLucy. Do you think Webberly is doing it for the saviour complex, or money, or both?

Honestly, I would guess both. If she was just about the money, there are easier ways to make it.

zibzibara · 19/05/2023 09:44

Do most doctors even read the research literature themselves? I was under the impression they get told about it at conferences or from pharmaceutical company reps.

ArabeIIaScott · 19/05/2023 09:44

I think you're right. Must be quite a potent ego trip, to get rich AND become a saviour of children.

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MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 19/05/2023 10:00

zibzibara · 19/05/2023 09:44

Do most doctors even read the research literature themselves? I was under the impression they get told about it at conferences or from pharmaceutical company reps.

If you are a GP, you can't possibly read the research literature on all the topics that a GP has to deal with, but I'd expect any specialist, including GPs with a special interest, to read the research on the topic of their specialist interest. For example, I mainly do urgent care work, and I certainly read research papers in the Emergency Medicine Journal etc.

I would be very surprised if HW hasn't read the "evidence": it's just that - as PPs have noted the evidence around medical/surgical transition is of poor quality and subjective, as it has mainly been produced by bodies like WPATH, who have an agenda.

Signalbox · 19/05/2023 11:18

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 19/05/2023 09:42

Honestly, I would guess both. If she was just about the money, there are easier ways to make it.

She definitely in it for the glory.

I know she managed to wriggle out of her suspension on appeal but the time and money and stress that she must’ve gone through over the last 5 years. Husband struck off too. She must be completely convinced that she is right. I saw on twitter today that she has been nominated for some national diversity award and she’s asking followers to vote for her. The bio is incredible. She’s such a martyr to the cause…

“I am a doctor and a massively proud advocate for the trans community. Since 2015, I have faced enormous uphill battles that tried to prevent me from creating services that allow trans people to access healthcare that suits them. I have cried, laughed, screamed and shouted, but every day I have worked towards this one single mission - allow transgender people to live their best lives. End of story!

I have seen so much hardship and pain, all of which is avoidable, and I will not rest until gender diverse people of all ages have access to the care they need, when they need, it and how they need it - worldwide.

The joy that my work has brought me is immeasurable, but the pain has also been hard to bear at times. But my cup is always half full (well, more than half full) and I know that truth, honesty and compassion will always win. The future is rosy, it just may look a little bleak at times!

I have faced far too many courts and tribunals and each time I have simply told the truth. Trans people need to be believed, listened to and given the same access to healthy lives as anyone else. The solution is simple, although it currently seems scary to many. If someone tells you that they are trans then start by believing them - and simply work to find out how best you can help them to live their best life. It’s that easy! Thank you for voting, it will mean so much to me and the future of trans healthcare.”

ArabeIIaScott · 19/05/2023 11:20

I have cried, laughed, screamed and shouted,

I think she needs to work on her bedside manner.

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ArabeIIaScott · 19/05/2023 11:21

The solution is simple, although it currently seems scary to many

What, irreversible surgery and sterilisation? I suppose you could call that 'simple' and it sure as fuck is scary.

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TheBiologyStupid · 19/05/2023 11:53

ArabeIIaScott · 19/05/2023 11:20

I have cried, laughed, screamed and shouted,

I think she needs to work on her bedside manner.

😂

Boiledbeetle · 19/05/2023 12:56

Getting her suspension overturned seems to have fed into her God complex that she's completely in the right. I fear she'll do much worse harm going forward because she thinks she had the moral highground even more.

AlisonDonut · 19/05/2023 13:06

zibzibara · 19/05/2023 09:44

Do most doctors even read the research literature themselves? I was under the impression they get told about it at conferences or from pharmaceutical company reps.

Worth listening to Eliza Mondegreen's report on the latest EPATH conference.

Seems nobody asks questions. At all.

https://genspect.org/dont-stop-believin-three-days-at-the-european-professional-association-for-transgender-health/

Signalbox · 19/05/2023 13:09

Boiledbeetle · 19/05/2023 12:56

Getting her suspension overturned seems to have fed into her God complex that she's completely in the right. I fear she'll do much worse harm going forward because she thinks she had the moral highground even more.

I think what they will need for a successful outcome is a witness who is saying they’ve been harmed by her. I wonder if she’s back in the business of prescribing PBs and cross sex hormones to 12 year olds yet? Or has she been put off such a risky (to her career) area of practice?

SidewaysOtter · 19/05/2023 13:13

It's amazing that she walks straight with that chip on her shoulder.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 19/05/2023 13:21

Signalbox · 19/05/2023 13:09

I think what they will need for a successful outcome is a witness who is saying they’ve been harmed by her. I wonder if she’s back in the business of prescribing PBs and cross sex hormones to 12 year olds yet? Or has she been put off such a risky (to her career) area of practice?

I imagine that she will work privately, as this avoids her having to comply with the conditions of being on an NHS perfomers' list (annual NHS appraisal etc), though she will still need to revalidate. She may continue to work from abroad - there is very little that the regulators can do, in that case. It's what I would do if I were her - why risk the hassle of another MPTS case?

Ingenieur · 19/05/2023 13:22

Just so I've got it straight, is she saying that because she(as an individual doctor) was taken to task for not following WPATH guidelines in her treatment of patients, therefore those standards are sacrosanct and shouldn't be questioned by UK medical establishment and must be adopted by them?

Fallacious reasoning if I ever heard it...

Signalbox · 19/05/2023 13:25

Ingenieur · 19/05/2023 13:22

Just so I've got it straight, is she saying that because she(as an individual doctor) was taken to task for not following WPATH guidelines in her treatment of patients, therefore those standards are sacrosanct and shouldn't be questioned by UK medical establishment and must be adopted by them?

Fallacious reasoning if I ever heard it...

Don’t think those allegations were found proved though.

Ingenieur · 19/05/2023 13:46

Thanks @Signalbox , would you mind summarising her argument in that case?

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 19/05/2023 14:21

She's making an argument about her MPTS tribunal that, in my opinion, is disingenuous .

Doctors are supposed to follow recognised best practice, unless there is a good reason to deviate from it. One of the allegations against HW is that she did not follow the guidance of WPATH and the Endocrine Society.

The tribunal accepted that the WPATH guidance had the status of peer review expert guidance. The tribunal considered the allegation that HW did not follow it. The Tribunal found that this allegation was unproven but it did not examine whether the WPATH guidance was correct. This would be outside the remit of any such tribunal.

So the (unproven) allegation considered by the tribunal was: " HW did not follow the expert guidance."

The tribunal did not consider "Is the expert guidance clinically correct'?

The fact that the tribunal recognised WPATH guidance as expert guidance therefore has no relevance to how transgender patients should now be managed, as the tribunal did not consider the clinical merit of the guidance - no one on that panel would have had the clinical expertise to do so and, in any case, it was outside the tribunal's remit.

Signalbox · 19/05/2023 14:58

Ingenieur · 19/05/2023 13:46

Thanks @Signalbox , would you mind summarising her argument in that case?

I'm not 100% sure what her argument was but looking at the determination the committee appeared to be of the opinion that that the WPATH SOC7 were only guidelines and that there was no obligation for her to adhere to them, only that she should "have regard to them". So when they found that head of charge not proved they were not saying she had followed the guidelines but that she was not under an obligation to follow them. That's my interpretation anyway but read for yourself and see what you make of it. It's very long but the head of charge in relation to WPATH is on p.103/4 (there's a lot more in the determination about WPATH you have to do a word search to find all the relevant parts.)

https://www.mpts-uk.org/-/media/mpts-rod-files/dr-helen-webberley-30-june-22_following-appeal.pdf

Helen Webberley Gender GP urges Dr Hillary Cass to adopt WPATH standards of care
ANewCreation · 19/05/2023 16:01

I wondered who on earth would have nominated disgraced doctor Helen Webberley for an award for her work in creating iatrogenic endocrine disorders, potentially sterilising gay and autistic kids and promoting plastic surgery as a solution to psychological distress for vulnerable people?

That would be none other than...Susie Green.

Honestly, you couldn't make it up!

https://twitter.com/HelenWebberley/status/1653839089693499408?s=20

Helen Webberley Gender GP urges Dr Hillary Cass to adopt WPATH standards of care
ArabeIIaScott · 19/05/2023 16:07

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 19/05/2023 14:21

She's making an argument about her MPTS tribunal that, in my opinion, is disingenuous .

Doctors are supposed to follow recognised best practice, unless there is a good reason to deviate from it. One of the allegations against HW is that she did not follow the guidance of WPATH and the Endocrine Society.

The tribunal accepted that the WPATH guidance had the status of peer review expert guidance. The tribunal considered the allegation that HW did not follow it. The Tribunal found that this allegation was unproven but it did not examine whether the WPATH guidance was correct. This would be outside the remit of any such tribunal.

So the (unproven) allegation considered by the tribunal was: " HW did not follow the expert guidance."

The tribunal did not consider "Is the expert guidance clinically correct'?

The fact that the tribunal recognised WPATH guidance as expert guidance therefore has no relevance to how transgender patients should now be managed, as the tribunal did not consider the clinical merit of the guidance - no one on that panel would have had the clinical expertise to do so and, in any case, it was outside the tribunal's remit.

Who would it be who does make the decision on WPATH guidelines? NICE?

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Bosky · 19/05/2023 16:46

NICE has closed its Evidence Review Search Function so you can't find it now on the NICE website - they did this without consulting the Committees overseeing NICE!

However, you can find these on the Cass Review site:

Entry 5 – Evidence & Epidemiology (October 2021)
https://cass.independent-review.uk/entry-5-evidence-epidemiology-october-2021/

NICE Evidence Reviews commissioned by Hilary Cass:

Nice Evidence Reviews
In January 2020, a Policy Working Group (PWG) was established by NHS England to undertake a review of the published evidence on the use of puberty blockers and feminising/masculinising hormones in children and young people with gender dysphoria to inform a policy position on their future use. Given the increasingly evident polarisation among clinical professionals, Dr Cass was asked to chair the group as a senior clinician with no prior involvement or fixed views in this area.

The evidence reviews were published in March 2021. Unfortunately, the available evidence was not deemed strong enough to form the basis of a policy position.

https://cass.independent-review.uk/nice-evidence-reviews/`

Evidence review: Gonadotrophin releasing hormone analogues for children and adolescents with gender dysphoria

This document will help inform Dr Hilary Cass’ independent review into gender identity services for children and young people. It was commissioned by NHS England and Improvement who commissioned the Cass review. It aims to assess the evidence for the clinical effectiveness, safety and cost-effectiveness of gonadotrophin releasing hormone (GnRH) analogues for children and adolescents aged 18 years or under with gender dysphoria.
The document was prepared by NICE in October 2020.

The content of this evidence review was up to date on 14 October 2020

https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/20220726_Evidence-review_GnRH-analogues_For-upload_Final.pdf

Evidence review: Gender-affirming hormones for children and adolescents with gender dysphoria

This document will help inform Dr Hilary Cass’ independent review into gender identity services for children and young people. It was commissioned by NHS England and Improvement who commissioned the Cass review. It aims to assess the evidence for the clinical effectiveness, safety and cost-effectiveness of gender-affirming hormones for children and adolescents aged 18 years or under with gender dysphoria.
The document was prepared by NICE in October 2020.

The content of this evidence review was up to date on 21 October 2020

https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/20220726_Evidence-review_Gender-affirming-hormones_For-upload_Final.pdf

Entry 5 – Evidence & Epidemiology (October 2021) – Cass Review

https://cass.independent-review.uk/entry-5-evidence-epidemiology-october-2021

AmuseBish · 19/05/2023 17:02

Ah, WPATH. Forever to be known as "the eunuch gender folx". I wonder when I'll be able to forget wtf I read in the article about the castration fetish stuff?

HereForTheFreeLunch · 19/05/2023 17:17

ArabeIIaScott · 16/05/2023 18:41

I suppose this isnt really a letter to Dr Cass, is it? It's a performance for others.

Exactly. She is speaking to her audience of future patients.
I told Dr Cass....

Bosky · 19/05/2023 17:33

I should have posted the conclusions to those NICE Evidence Reviews commissioned by Cass!

Evidence review: Gonadotrophin releasing hormone analogues for children and adolescents with gender dysphoria

Conclusion

The results of the studies that reported impact on the critical outcomes of gender dysphoria and mental health (depression, anger and anxiety), and the important outcomes of body image and psychosocial impact (global and psychosocial functioning), in children and adolescents with gender dysphoria are of very low certainty using modified GRADE. They suggest little change with GnRH analogues from baseline to follow-up.

Studies that found differences in outcomes could represent changes that are either of questionable clinical value, or the studies themselves are not reliable and changes could be due to confounding, bias or chance. It is plausible, however, that a lack of difference in scores from baseline to follow-up is the effect of GnRH analogues in children and adolescents with gender dysphoria, in whom the development of secondary sexual characteristics might be expected to be associated with an increased impact on gender dysphoria, depression, anxiety, anger and distress over time without treatment. The study by de Vries et al. 2011 reported statistically significant reductions in the Child Behaviour Checklist (CBCL) and Youth Self-Report (YSR) scores from baseline to follow up, which include measures of distress. As the aim of GnRH analogues is to reduce distress caused by the development of secondary sexual characteristics, this may be an important finding. However, as the studies all lack appropriate controls who were not receiving GnRH analogues, any positive changes could be a regression to mean.

The results of the studies that reported bone density outcomes suggest that GnRH analogues may reduce the expected increase in bone density (which is expected during puberty). However, as the studies themselves are not reliable, the results could be due to confounding, bias or chance. While controlled trials may not be possible, comparative studies are needed to understand this association and whether the effects of GnRH analogues on bone density are seen after they are stopped. All the studies that reported safety outcomes provided very low certainty evidence.

No cost-effectiveness evidence was found to determine whether or not GnRH analogues are cost-effective for children and adolescents with gender dysphoria.

The results of the studies that reported outcomes for subgroups of children and adolescents with gender dysphoria, suggest there may be differences between sex assigned at birth males (transfemales) and sex assigned at birth females (transmales).

https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/20220726_Evidence-review_GnRH-analogues_For-upload_Final.pdf

Evidence review: Gender-affirming hormones for children and adolescents with gender dysphoria

Conclusion

Any potential benefits of gender-affirming hormones must be weighed against the largely unknown long-term safety profile of these treatments in children and adolescents with gender dysphoria.

Results from 5 uncontrolled, observational studies suggest that, in children and adolescents with gender dysphoria, gender-affirming hormones are likely to improve symptoms of gender dysphoria, and may also improve depression, anxiety, quality of life, suicidality, and psychosocial functioning. The impact of treatment on body image is unclear. All results were of very low certainty using modified GRADE.

Safety outcomes were reported in 5 observational studies. Statistically significant increases in some measures of bone density were seen following treatment with gender-affirming hormones, although results varied by bone region (lumber spine versus femoral neck) and by population (transfemales versus transmales). However, z-scores suggest that bone density remained lower in transfemales and transmales compared with an equivalent cisgender population. Results from 1 study of gender-affirming hormones started during adolescence reported statistically significant increases in blood pressure and body mass index, and worsening of the lipid profile (in transmales) at age 22 years, although longer term studies that report on cardiovascular event rates are required. Adverse events and discontinuation rates associated with gender-affirming hormones were only reported in 1 study, and no conclusions can be made on these outcomes.

This review did not identify sub-groups of patients who may benefit more from gender- affirming hormones.

No cost-effectiveness evidence was found to determine whether gender-affirming hormones are a cost-effective treatment for children and adolescents with gender dysphoria.

https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/20220726_Evidence-review_Gender-affirming-hormones_For-upload_Final.pdf

My bolding in the above.

Assessing cost-effectiveness would be a challenge because puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones for kids are only some of the first steps on the medical pathway and the cost-effectiveness of the whole pathway should be considered to put them into context. This should include iatrogenic outcomes (harms from medical intervention) and "technology abandonment", ie. detransitioners.

NICE - 7 Assessing cost effectiveness

Health economics is about improving the health of the population through the efficient use of resources, so it necessarily applies at all levels, including individual clinical decisions. Clinicians already take resources and value for money into account when making clinical decisions; the incorporation of good-quality health-economic evidence into clinical guidelines can help to make this more consistent.

The Guideline Development Group (GDG) is required to make decisions based on the best available evidence of both clinical and cost effectiveness. This chapter describes the role of the health economist in the development of NICE clinical guidelines, and suggests possible approaches to considering economic evidence as part of the guideline development process. It also sets out the principles for conducting new economic modelling studies if there is insufficient evidence in the literature to assess the cost effectiveness of key interventions or services.

Guideline recommendations should be based on the estimated costs of the interventions or services in relation to their expected health benefits (that is, their 'cost effectiveness'), rather than on the total cost or resource impact of implementing them. Thus, if the evidence suggests that an intervention or service provides significant health benefits at an acceptable cost per patient treated, it should be recommended even if it would be expensive to implement across the whole population.

When implementing a guideline's recommendations, commissioners and trusts also need to know the resource and cost implications for their organisations. NICE undertakes a separate, but parallel, cost-impact analysis. This analysis is usually developed by the NICE costing analyst during the consultation period of the clinical guideline. Costing tools are published at the same time as the guideline, to allow organisations to estimate implementation costs

More at:

https://www.nice.org.uk/process/pmg6/chapter/assessing-cost-effectiveness

QALYs and their role in the NICE decision-making process
April 2017 - Prescriber

In the third article in our series on NICE guidance, we discuss Quality-Adjusted Life Years (QALYs), a key calculation used by NICE when assessing the cost. effectiveness of new treatments.

https://wchh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/psb.1562

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 19/05/2023 19:08

ArabeIIaScott · 19/05/2023 16:07

Who would it be who does make the decision on WPATH guidelines? NICE?

It's generally not that clear-cut. In a few cases, NICE mandates particular treatment pathways, and rejects options used in other countries. In general, though, NICE might refer to other countries' guidelines in its own guidance, but it wouldn't definitively endorse or reject them.

I am totally opposed to PBs, but I do think HW had a reasonable argument for following WPATH guidance. GIDS/the Tavi had not got round to collecting outcomes data, let alone proposing a treatment protocol, after well over a decade of prescribing PBs. If you read Time to Think, you find huge variation in practice, even amongst Tavi clinicians. In the absence of any UK consensus, it wasn't unreasonable to defer to WPATH. But it absolutely does not follow from that that MPTS or any other body involved in considering the allegations against HW has considered the clinical validity of WPATH's advice. In my opinion, she appears to be suggesting otherwise in her open letter, and I think that is disingenuous.

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