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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender Critical Doctors

23 replies

LunaTheCat · 13/05/2023 23:19

Hi, GP of 30 years experience here.
I work in a semi rural practice in New Zealand.
Privately and in small groups many of my colleagues express gender critical views. There is often great fear about expressing those views publically amongst colleagues. There is a push for GPs to provide gender affirming hormones… often without psychological assessment because it is perceived as being discriminatory to ask psychological assessment ( the real reason I expect is that there are no psychologists!)
I want those patients with severe gender dysphoria all the help and support needed but the wave of young people wanting treatment, who often have other mental health/ neurological atypical diagnosis is frightening. I am afraid as a profession we are doing more harm than good by providing a medical solution to a social phenomenon .
NZ is very small.
I am wondering if there are international groups, people with an excellent research background looking at this .
Can PM me.
Thankyou.

OP posts:
LunaTheCat · 13/05/2023 23:45

Ingenieur Thankyou for the link.. that is very helpful.

OP posts:
ChateauMargaux · 28/06/2023 17:39

First do no harm - sometimes in medicine, that is no always clearcut.
Evidence based medicine - difficult for pioneering therapies
The benefits must outweigh the risks or the known side effects.

We don't always get this right and there are many examples where evidence has been ignored, willfully or unconsciously misrepresented, or suppressed .. sometimes by those with sincerely held good intentions.

But I really struggle with seeing how cross sex hormones or gender affirming surgery fits within the principles and ethics we expect of the medical community.

It is difficult to stand up and speak when we are faced with the current climate of fear of presenting an opposing view.

We do not have good quality evidence that cross sex hormones are without consequence or that the consequences outweigh the risks of doing nothing.

dimorphism · 28/06/2023 17:59

The thing that always strikes me, and which may be helpful OP, is to compare to other pioneering treatments in terms of the responsiveness to indications of risks / side effects.

Most other pioneering treatments initiate studies and follow up, for gender surgeries and drugs it appears to be the opposite and any suggestion for evidence based research which looks at risks as well as benefits is generally called 'transphobia'.

JeannieDark · 28/06/2023 18:00

You might find this podcast episode interesting -
It talks about the research.

Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast - 118 - Prioritizing Expensive & Invasive Interventions: American Healthcare w/ Zhenya Abbruzzese

<p>In this episode, Sasha and Stella sit down with Zhenya Abbruzzese, a healthcare researcher, analyst, and the author of several widely read peer-reviewed publications about pediatric gender medicine. Zhenya Abbruzzese papers include “<a href="https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2150346" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">The Myth of Reliable Research in Pediatric Gender Medicine</a>,” “<a href="https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.20462211__" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">Reconsidering Informed Consent for Children, Adolescents, and Young Adults</a>,” and most recently, “<a href="https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11930-023-00358-x" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">Current Concerns About Gender-Affirming Therapy in Adolescents</a>.” She works with several healthcare organizations, including the Society for Evidence-Based Gender Medicine (SEGM), an international non-profit organization that aims to raise the bar of the quality of evidence in gender medicine, with a specific focus on children and young people.&#160;</p><p>&#160;</p><p>Previously, Zhenya led analytics efforts for a major insurer to identify low-value care and overuse of invasive and non-beneficial interventions. She also developed and led a venture-backed healthcare startup to help patients with medically-unexplained symptoms and health anxiety.&#160;</p><p>&#160;</p><p>A lifelong Democrat and supporter of progressive causes, Zhenya became alarmed when she saw the civil rights argument misused to justify the rapid proliferation and administration of highly invasive “gender-affirming” interventions to children and adolescents despite quality evidence supporting their use.&#160;</p><p>During their conversation, Zhenya, Stella, and Sasha explore the origins of the Dutch Protocol and dive deep into Zhenya’s insights into pediatric gender medicine, as well as her experience working with insurance companies. Zhenya takes great care to point out that in addition to considering the cultural components impacting the current gender discourse, it’s necessary to explore the psychological piece as well. But in addition to that, the involvement of medical organizations like the APA and the American healthcare establishment as a whole all play key roles not only in what is happening in gender medicine but how it’s happening to such extremes.</p><p><br></p><h2>Links:</h2><p>SEGM:</p><p><a href="https://segm.orgg/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">segm.org/</a>&#160;</p><p><br></p><p>Papers by Zhenya Abbruzzese</p><p><a href="https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2150346" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">The Myth of Reliable Research in Pediatric Gender Medicine</a></p><p><a href="https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.20462211__" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">Reconsidering Informed Consent for Children, Adolescents, and Young Adults</a></p><p><a href="https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11930-023-00358-x" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">Current Concerns About Gender-Affirming Therapy in Adolescents</a></p><p><br></p><p>Methodological Bias (funny meme):</p><p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/mathmemes/comments/uoc3zq/interestingg_survey/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">www.reddit.com/r/mathmemes/comments/uoc3zq/interesting_survey/</a>&#160;</p><h2>If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting:</h2><p><strong>The Dutch Studies Playlist</strong></p><p>We have done a number of episodes about the "Dutch Protocol" which precipitated the surge in youth gender transition. There are many things about the Dutch research that have been misinterpreted and misapplied in various medical settings. Here are all the episodes we've done so far where we dig deeper into the studies that started it all.</p><p><a href="https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngVCeAoK6vudCwfy0R2RvgSH2QxBJTuu" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngVCeAoK6vudCwfy0R2Rvg_SH2QxBJTu</a>&#160;</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Conversations about Medical Interventions &#38; Gender</strong></p><p>In these episodes, we discuss the history, evidence base, modern debates and emerging investigations around medical interventions for trans-identified children and adults.</p><p><a href="https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngVCeAoK6vtz3WOn5z8WUM5PidraNGZUU__" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngVCeAoK6vtz3WOn5z8WUM5PidraNGZU</a>&#160;</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Episode 62 - Pioneers Series: Adolescent Identity with Riittakerttu Kaltiala</strong></p><p><a href="https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/62-pioneers-series-adolescent-identity-with-riittakerttu-kaltiala" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/62-pioneers-series-adolescent-identity-with-riittakerttu-kaltiala</a>&#160;</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Episode 94 WPATH’s Bizarre 8th Standards of Care</strong></p><p><a href="https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/94-wpaths-bizarre-8th-standards-of-careare----" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="--blank">gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/94-wpaths-bizarre-8th-standards-of-care</a>&#160;</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Episode 114 The Dutch Protocol: A Deprivation of Sexual Development with Julia Mason and Stephen Levine</strong></p><p><a href="https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/114-the-dutch-protocol-a-deprivation-of-sexual-development-with-julia-mason-and-stephen-levine" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/114-the-dutch-protocol-a-deprivation-of-sexual-development-with-julia-mason-and-stephen-levine</a>&#160;</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>Please visit <a href="http://www.widerlenspod.comm/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">www.widerlenspod.com</a> to explore more content, access additional resources, or join our listener community.</p><p><br></p><p>Watch us on YouTube: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/@widerlenspodd*" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">www.youtube.com/@widerlenspod</a></p><p><br></p><p>For more information about Sasha’s &#38; Stella’s parent coaching membership groups:</p><p>Sasha Ayad: <a href="https://inspiredteentherapy.com/parents-start-heree__" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">inspiredteentherapy.com/parents-start-here</a>&#160;</p><p>Stella O’Malley: <a href="http://www.stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">www.stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching</a></p><p><br></p><p>To learn more about our sponsors, visit:</p><p><a href="https://www.genderexploratory.comm/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">GETA</a></p><p><a href="https://rethinkime.org/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">ReIME</a></p><p><a href="https://genspect.orgg/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="blank">Genspect</a></p><p><br></p>
https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/118-prioritizing-expensive-invasive-interventions-american-healthcare-w-zhenya-abbruzzese

PriOn1 · 28/06/2023 18:10

Pioneering therapies are all very well, but by the time it spreads from pioneering doctors out to GP clinics, I’d expect it to be within a very strict, experimental protocol, until it was evidence based and fully accepted.

In this case, the pioneering doctors have been so gung-ho and so driven by a lobby group (WPATH) that all rationality has gone out of the window.

Glad to know you are there, OP and I hope you can join the growing number of doctors who are questioning the status quo, which looks radically unsafe to me.

ArabeIIaScott · 28/06/2023 20:32

FWIW, I don't know a single NHS employee - and I know quite a few - who doesn't find the entire fucking farrago utterly risible nonsense.

They're all intensely aware of the risks of speaking up. They stay quiet. But they are there.

Hagosaurus · 28/06/2023 21:31

Given the requirements for an understanding of biology, you’d think that the majority of healthcare professionals would take a gender critical stance. The challenge is (ironically) one of creating safe spaces where they can express and debate their honestly held views, and meet other people who agree with them.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 28/06/2023 23:58

NZ is in dire straits.

this might be helpful <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.06.28-193405/thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/4070174-why-europe-and-america-are-going-in-opposite-directions-on-youth-transgender-medicine/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">US v europe medical appraoch

Welcome to nginx

https://archive.ph/2023.06.28-193405/https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/4070174-why-europe-and-america-are-going-in-opposite-directions-on-youth-transgender-medicine/

BettyFilous · 29/06/2023 00:15

I second @JeannieDark ’s podcast recommendation. It was an excellent discussion. Zhenya Abbruzzese was really impressive and informative. Her reflections on the how the US healthcare system incentivises questionable practice were interesting.

Vintagecreamandcottagepie · 29/06/2023 00:17

I'm so very sorry for all doctors and other medical personnel having to deal with this.

I am an ex teacher who quit to raise my own children, so often think of how tough it must be to be a teacher right now.

I couldn't go back to teaching, due to the challenges I would now face, and that I couldn't in any way condone what is happening with young people.
It is causing them harm, and I couldn't play a part in that. I also could not lie and thus become an accessory to an emperor's new clothes scenario (or worse, 1984 situation).

I know that, after many years of training, and the desire to remain in a chosen field (as well as the obvious need to earn a decent living for one's family) makes for very difficult decisions...

But we need professionals to stand up for truth. Please maintain your integrity.

I hope you and your colleagues get the support and advice to do so with as minimal disruption to yourselves as possible.

ArabeIIaScott · 29/06/2023 07:36

Every field and industry is going to have to make networks. They are popping up - civil service, physiotherapists, writers, psychologists.

I guess we need at least one person in each field willing to risk their career. So far I think every tribunal has found in favour of gc employees, fwiw.

CWI · 08/03/2026 09:23

Genspect is a good source. It's on youtube, x and substack.

TheKeatingFive · 08/03/2026 09:36

While I appreciate the difficulties, doctors on the side of science, morality and reason need to find their courage and stand up for what's right here.

The damage this ideology will do to perceptions of the healthcare industry as a whole is going to be very significant.

MarieDeGournay · 08/03/2026 09:43

There have been great responses from other posters, and I don't have much to contribute except this: I've noticed that WPATH is still being quoted in some places as the 'authority' on gender healthcare, so if you haven't already done so you might find it useful to look at critiques of WPATH e.g.
Dispute arises over World Professional Association for Transgender Health’s involvement in WHO’s trans health guideline | The BMJ

It was a good idea to come here, as you can see there is a lot of support for you and other GC women in hostile environments, and you're always welcome to come back when you need a boost of reality!

fabricstash · 08/03/2026 13:06

Is it worth talking to the uk based Biology in Medicine group? They I think are predominantly GPs. You might have to contact them through x. Below is a podcast they recently did
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/inciteful-sisters/id1802508941?i=1000753422305

TheSandgroper · 08/03/2026 13:46

This thread is THREE years old.

@fabricstash @MarieDeGournay @TheKeatingFive

Hagosaurus · 08/03/2026 18:07

Yet still so relevant!

MarieDeGournay · 08/03/2026 18:22

TheSandgroper · 08/03/2026 13:46

This thread is THREE years old.

@fabricstash @MarieDeGournay @TheKeatingFive

Ah feck!
😠I mean, thank you so much for pointing that out TheSandgroperSmile
I hope the OP is doing OK.

Feejoah · 08/03/2026 18:25

Ha! I wonder if this doctor practices in my small NZ town. Still no psychological support available. The trans people I have met sadly appear to have histories that suggest they would have benefitted from something other than cross sex hormones.

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