How did people start to believe in this trans stuff?

[IsThereAnEchoInHere]

I’m talking about the ’allys’, the one’s who believe in all this?
How did it make sense to them that women have penis’ now, that transwomen can compete with women, that men who were so oppressive yesterday can today be the most oppressed transwomen?

How did they get to that point?
How did it make sense to them?

To be complitely honest, I tried/ am trying to ’be nice’ and understand, but the more I read (from trans people, allys) the less it makes sense.
I wanted to understand, but my brain won’t let me.

Sorry to be clear, just like Denton’s law produced the strategy document previously, this was done via the Trans Law Center (Transgender Law Center).

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5fd0f29d0d626c5fb471be74/t/61b13d00236e2f7f2dbb9a36/1639005441624/Transgender+Youth+and+the+Freedom+to+Be+Ourselves.pdf

(Apologies, having read this back it's really long and I haven't said everything that I wanted to but we'll be here till Christmas if I do. TLDR: I was a gullible idiot)

So, possibly outing myself as a thickie here (although I suspect I've posted much of this before) but here goes...

A very old friend has a trans sibling. Said sibling transitioned many, many years ago. The friend shared this info shortly before her wedding, knowing that I knew her sibling in their previous incarnation. I know this sibling had mental health issues as a teen and that the family would have done everything possible to get the sibling well. But to no avail and the sibling ended up transitioning. Having seen and spoken to the sibling at the wedding, I accepted that this person was now a woman. They are very delicate, feminine etc etc.

Then a few years later TWAW became quite the slogan. And of course because in my mind the word transwomen refers to people like my friend's sibling, this meant all TW are indeed women. No critical thinking required.

The inner feeling of wanting to be the opposite sex felt reasonable. Especially as someone who has never felt particularly comfortable in myself.

Fast forward a few years and an old friend of DH who had always been into dressing up in women's clothing suffered a breakdown and had some devastating things happen to him. All of a sudden he was transitioning and had "always" wanted to be a woman. Despite having clearly stated in the past that he just liked dressing up. Hmm, ok thinks I - linking back to my friend's sibling - [insert pseudonym here] - is now a woman. TWAW after all. It never occurred to me that this wasn't the case.

Then during a lockdown drinking zoom meet up between DH, his mate and a couple of others, I heard the mate talking. Sounding very, very blokey. Not just the way he spoke but what he was actually saying - behaving in a way that very few women do. All of a sudden it was like a light went on - this was no woman. This was what he had always been. A man in a dress. Absolute epiphany. I had blindly just accepted that once he uttered the magic words, that was it, he was a woman. It had never occured to me that this wasn't the case. I didn't accept what I was told because I was scared of the consequences of questioning it. I genuinely believed it (or rather unquestioningly believed)

Then I started looking into it further, rediscovered Mumsnet and the rest is terf history.

I think there's a combination of reasons why people (particularly women) "believe".
Women know how it feels to feel uncomfortable in their own body from experiencing puberty. So the notion of someone being born in the wrong body resonates and when you've felt like your skin isn't right on you, why wouldn't you be kind to someone who claims to feel this intensely enough that they want to "be" the opposite sex. I just don't think people question the mantra. I never did. People wouldn't say it if it wasn't true. Would they? And I think a lot of people don't understand Aygeepee. Especially if the only TW you've come across are the delicate type just trying to get on with their lives, rather than the hulking great brutes in thigh high boots and pink rara skirts who are more common.

During my enchantment (and I do feel that it was like being under a spell) women in prisons, abuse survivors in DV shelters, women in sport, and women of faith weren't on my radar. At all. Because when you swallow the lie, TWAW, that means all TW regardless of the situation. It wasn't even the case of not wanting to roll back on my beliefs because of discomfort, it was just a truth - TWAW. But once you see the trick for what it is, you can't unsee it.

Having said all that, there's so much info in the public domain now, that there is no excuse for any adult to be as naïve as I was. A large number of women currently parroting TWAW can't possibly believe it the way I did. It has to be self-preservation and fear.

but I have seen various studies or medical information / Dr quotes etc that suggest in some cases there is no natural obvious inherent advantage for over sex over another etc.

Have you now. I think you mean you have seen some tweets or a Reddit thread.

Trans people do not owe you an explanation or to help you understand.

Don't be surprised when people get their information from MN, Twitter etc then.

@MadameKali , interesting post. For what it's worth, I admire anyone who can look at the changing information and reassess.

Trans people do not owe you an explanation or to help you understand.

Okay, and I don't owe trans people anything either - I do not have to believe what they believe about themselves nor do I have to participate in any way in said belief.

They just want to live their lives the same as you do.

If only that were so.

Sure they "owe" an explanation, if they are claiming things like TWAW and demanding rights off the back of it.

It's not being a "decent person" just to go along with trans-activism, without being critical, without thinking of the impact on other people.

@Katypyee

Allow everybody to be treated the same...Stand up for marginalised people

Do you not see that these two commandments are mutually exclusive? Once a group has been marginalised, they need extra opportunities and protections to regain equal status and power.

And so it is with women (original female meaning). We need woman-only provisions and protections to rebalance the ongoing disadvantages of our historic marginalisation.

Or take LGBT++ people. There's no Straight Pride parade or Cis History month because those people don't need it.

Treating everyone the same would mean no arguments about who gets to use the ladies toilet because there would be no ladies toilet.

Once you accept that marginalised people need extra support, you accept you need to define who is and isn't entitled to that support. And that means you must, avoidably, treat some people differently. Some people will be excluded from some things.

You are talking too much sense there @FlirtsWithRhinos and that just won't compute with these idealogues.

What is really really bizarre is the number of people who just accepted this as if it was completely normal, as if things had indeed always been that way. There only seemed to be a handful of us curious enough to say: what's going on here? What's happening? This doesn't seem quite right. And we all got called bigots and Nazis. It's the most weird thing. I keep thinking; doesn't anyone else remember that it didn't use to be like this?

I completely relate. It feels like a collective mania. None of it makes any sense.

the second really weird thing actually, is that our first "debate" on this ended with him storming out of the room and slamming the door.

Cognitive dissonance being threatened. IMO it's why the allies get so very angry when people they care about don't toe the line.

To be fair, that's just normal operating procedure for the left-wing to label their opponents as bigots and fascists.

Although there is something barking mad about putting male rapists into female prisons and thinking you have the moral high ground and the progressive position. Like how could anyone fall for this?

BlessedKali

Thank you for posting about your experience, it's thought provoking. I suppose that, when people find a position, it can be very difficult to see new information and conclude that they need to reassess things.

That would explain why so many otherwise rational people get angry and defensive and dismiss any actual evidence contrary to what they have come to believe.

Few people like to admit to having been mistaken.

@MadameKali , interesting post. For what it's worth, I admire anyone who can look at the changing information and reassess.

Second this.

in some cases there is no natural obvious inherent advantage for over sex over another etc.

I don’t know what the original context was for this, but this is true in some sports isn’t it? (As well as many other things of course.) Equestrian sports, curling maybe, darts, motor racing. I can understand having women’s categories even for things where women are not physically disadvantaged, to counteract societal disadvantages, eg writing prizes. But in some situations men and women are fairly matched.

in fact the fact that that is true only really serves to emphasise that in a lot of other situations, where physical strength, weight, reach etc do matter, they are not evenly matched and men do have an advantage.

I don't really know how it started but suspect the Tavistock clinic had something to do with it. I think it is total and utter madness and I'm very grateful and relieved all of my DC and foster son agree with me. SS actually told foster son off because his birth brother is now trans and he refused to call his sibling his sister. He had to go to counselling to supposedly come to terms with losing a brother and gaining a sister but the counselor said at the end of 8 sessions my foster son still had the same view as before the counselling, that he was sad his brother wanted to pretend to be a girl. I was actually very proud of him for not allowing him to be influenced by woke madness. My Foster son is very sporty and furious boys' dressed as girls can infiltrate girls' sport and says they are only doing it because they are not good enough to win in male categories. He has lots of friends who are sporty girls and is furious these friends might get overlooked.

The Spectator article referenced a few times in PP's outlines exactly how the trans lobbyists played the system to their own advantage.

They did it in government and they've done it in schools. Once something is regularly being taught in school people think - it's in school - it MUST be real/accepted/true/though through/scientifically correct.

The trans campaign has literally been by stealth. Get it plugged into every workplace, school, new legislation, party policy, then the public with have NO CHOICE but to accept it. They haven't made any attempt in getting the public to accept it.

this is true in some sports isn’t it? (As well as many other things of course.) Equestrian sports, curling maybe, darts, motor racing.

It is true, but funnily enough in many of the sports where there isn't a significant male/female difference, competitions are already mixed. (Also, it does tend to be sports where the 'strength/power' part of the activity doesn’t come from the human but from an engine, horse, etc. And there's male advantage in places you wouldn't necessarily expect, like snooker - strength doesn't really matter there, but reach does.)

Just to be clear though. Some motor sports, such as car racing, require strength , even neck strength for coping with the cornering. And darts may have advantages because of different leverage points, breathing - male people can have longer between breaths meaning extra time to focus and aim. Curling must surely be benefitted from greater power range for getting stones down and speed and power of sweeping action (fast twitch muscles ).

I think around sports, this tweet is relevant. It is about how media guidelines are yet to catch up with the changes in policy and in majority opinion.

https://twitter.com/rob_thabuilder/status/1657741263095906305?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

Yes, I'm not saying my suggestions are necessarily watertight, just that I think there are some - and yes it's generally sports where some other element brings the power. There are also a (very few) sports where females seem to have the advantage, namely super long distance endurance running type things. Any sport where women and men are able to openly play against each other should have research done to make sure that it is fair - snooker a good example (I did mention reach, and that's why snooker isn't included).

But the point remains that if there are any, then they are exception that proves the rule. "But but... in some situations men don't have an advantage". So in others they do - situations where size and strength affects outcome.

Once something is regularly being taught in school people think - it's in school - it MUST be real/accepted/true/though through/scientifically correct.

This is true - that people think that - but one thing I have noticed after years of having kids in school is how much utter nonsense and unscientific bunk is taught as fact. Not just trans stuff, all kinds of things. Many teachers will teach the wrong "facts" about how a plane flies, how evolution works, how tides work. Not to mention the ridiculous "wellbeing" drives telling everyone to be "resilient" or "be open about their mental health" which are ill thought out and can cause severe distress. All sorts. I don't complain or I'd be in there every day, but scientific accuracy does not generally bother schools.

Your foster son sounds amazing. He knows his own mind and he sounds a wonderful ally to his female friends. I hope he can come to terms with his sibling’s transition, without the need to believe TWAW. It’s still his sibling at the end of the day, just presenting differently.

The fact that there are a few sports where there’s (arguably) no advantage, only proves there are many (by far most) where there’s a significant advantage.

And I don’t see transwomen infiltrating snooker and darts to compete against the women.

Of course they’re not, because there’s no validation, and no easy win for them in those sports.

Because somehow not believing that people can change sex is ´homophobic’ and means that you are ‘allied with the far right’. It’s a clever tactic. Many people’s identity revolves around being seen to be progressive, left wing etc so much so that they can’t tolerate anything that would threaten that image. I’ve seen it in my immediate family circle (my peers not my teens - they are way more sceptical interestingly) I’ve seen them all go from raised eyebrows at Jenner ( when that story broke) to raising their eyebrows at me because I refuse to go along with it. I have become completely apolitical as a result- can’t stand all the smug ‘be kind’ bullshit and the sheer stupidity of it all.