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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My fears for the future.

105 replies

RealityFan · 06/05/2023 13:57

Borne of being a bit of a glass empty person, never "happier" than when fussing and worrying.

Despite fighting talk on this forum, I'm less and less sure that the gender critical battle will come around our way.

If Starmer feels he can get away with it, he'll more and more sideline the What Is A Woman? question. FWIW, I'm unsure how salient it is across all voters, let alone all women. Trans issues are almost negligible in highlighted concerns amongst voters in opinion polls.

Unfortunately Mumsnet is not the outside world. Women especially may either neglect, or de-prioritise unease with gender issues, to get a government that will fund the NHS, social care, housing, nursery education etc.

If Starmer botches things and it's a Hung parliament or minority Labour administration, the LDs, Greens and SNP will extract such concessions that Starmer likely will cave on demands from Leftist Progessives in his own party and minority parties to kowtow on at least the direction of travel being Self ID, at the very least absolute draconian laws on conversion therapy ban to include trans, rigid hate speech laws as being passed in Ireland where any skepticism expressed will be stamped on, enforced pronouns and absolute ban on misgendering locked tight.

So, a sweeping Labour win brings changes in, or Starmer does another U-turn when in power. Anyone happy to vote for him hoping helltvo lukewarm in power? A marginal win, and we're in unpredictable progessive overreach territory.

And the Conservatives, my natural party to vote for, a busted flush over 14 years by the time of the GE, only now upping their game on trans issues, yet too late and too incompetent, so that the only party half decent in this area, is almost guaranteed to hand over the keys.

So, that's our political landscape. Further pessimistic feelings generate reading Eliza Mondegreen's report on EPATH conference, just a Hellish narrative of total child abuse, being driven through into the medical mainstream.

Throw in the recent UNESCO and WHO proposals, a de facto prospectus to revitalise the PIE agenda, Self ID and hate speech laws ramping up all way across the West.

And sane voices to the contrary, obviously speaking to the ordinary man and woman in the street (JKR, Billboard Chris, Sharon Davies, Graham Linehan, Posie Parker etc), effectively still marginalised by the anxiety-laden freeze in public discourse.

This feels like a never ending (un)civil war, the TRA forces now strategically embedded in every leftist/centrist party throughout the West, MSM, and more and more rightist parties, civic society, either enthusiastic or acquiescing. Woke capitalism rounding up the forces of capital, actors and musicians and writers on board making the case, "social capital" so to speak.

So, as our brave GC rearguard action creates hits that truly shake this edifice, the direction of travel from the TRA leviathan feels inexorable.

It feels weird for big wins like the end of No Debate, Tavistock expose, IOC ruling, Starmer having to consider his messaging, Sturgeon falling on her sword over Adam Bryson, Nike and Bud Light humiliated in public.

But I'd say these remain skirmishes, the trans edifice is rolling over us slowly but surely.

For the last few decades I always argued as an atheist with my devout Christian friend that humans fuck it up but also fix it.

On trans issues, I'm now only believing the first bit of that sentence.

Am I right to be this down hearted? Who wants to pick me up? Lol.

OP posts:
dimorphism · 10/05/2023 06:09

EdithStourton · 10/05/2023 05:58

@RealityFan @dimorphism I share your views about the attitude to SAHMs. I was one for several years and then worked a day or so a week from home for about a decade. Feminist writing in eg the Guardian never seemed to look at life from my angle and I always felt I was letting the side down but our circumstances made it the most viable choice. I felt completely adrift from feminism for a long time - very little time or brain space in which to think about it, and when I did, it had its back turned to me.

Rant over!

Solidarity! Of course there's the problem that when you're a SAHM you rarely have the time to spend reading about or engaging in long discussions on feminism and there is very little attempt to help women in this situation engage in my experience. Now I'm back working and the kids are in school I have much more time for that!

This is partly why I like KJK's approach - let women speak is truly equal opportunity. All types of women get to speak, you don't have to pass a test or be an academic or anything at all. There's no entry criteria other than showing up - true grass roots.

I also think that a lot of the dislike of KJK from certain feminist quarters is because she was a SAHM. The contempt is very thinly disguised at times. It's also why I delight in her success because once you've been a SAHM it's meant to be a choice that destroys your career (which is sadly all too true for many, with little to no help to get back to work) but the absolute opposite has been true for Kellie Jay! Despite spending all those years raising her children, she's managed to do more for women's rights in the past 5 years than many who've dedicated their entire lives and careers to feminist theory.

dimorphism · 10/05/2023 06:11

And to bring it back on topic.... KJK's straight talking and her grass roots movement is one of the few things that makes me optimistic for the future. Let Women Speak is such a wonderful thing - you can see as the women stand and speak how powerful it is for them and for those listening.

HBGKC · 10/05/2023 10:27

"I also strongly agree - having been a SAHM - that being a SAHM is sneered at by a certain demographic of 'feminists' in the UK as well as being seen as a bad choice in general in the UK. I've been a SAHM in the UK and also in another European country, the difference in the way I was treated was stark. It was seen as a valuable contribution to society and as valid as any other 'career' or life choice in the European country, not so in the UK."

I also totally agree with this, @dimorphism. If not too outing, I'd be very interested to know the European country you're referring to.

Also "Even the child dying when the mother was working at home during covid seems to have had little impact to this expectation that mothers can 'do it all'" - I missed this completely; was it covered in the media? So you have a link/any further info? Sounds absolutely horrifying.

TooBigForMyBoots · 10/05/2023 11:04

RealityFan · 07/05/2023 10:20

I don't recall a single vocal feminist in the 80s-00s period who viewed stay at home mums as anything other than second class and sell outs.

It was all Nicola Horlick "you can have it all, a successful City career and satisfied mother", I really can't remember the likes of Suzanne Moore having anything other than barely restrained disdain for women who chose the more traditional path.

I do believe this is fuelling young women's attitudes in being TWAW...if women indeed CAN have it all, and gender gaps are narrowing or non existent, then it's a natural consequence for not only men wanting to be women, but quite literally becoming them as well.

Vocal feminists in the 80's-00's fought for the rights of single mothers and lesbian mothers, breastfeeding and increased maternity leave.

Liberal feminism has always focused on the rights of mothers, SAH or WOH. They were criticised for being "dick panderers", "handmaidens" and "choosy choice" by some of their radical sisters but motherhood and the rights and protection of SAHM have always been important to feminists and feminism.Hmm

TooBigForMyBoots · 10/05/2023 11:20

Moreover, this Tory government have reduced the age of children from 5yo to 2yo before women are expected to WOTH. They only care about women who contribute economically. Motherhood is not important to them.

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