My fears for the future.

[RealityFan]

Borne of being a bit of a glass empty person, never "happier" than when fussing and worrying.

Despite fighting talk on this forum, I'm less and less sure that the gender critical battle will come around our way.

If Starmer feels he can get away with it, he'll more and more sideline the What Is A Woman? question. FWIW, I'm unsure how salient it is across all voters, let alone all women. Trans issues are almost negligible in highlighted concerns amongst voters in opinion polls.

Unfortunately Mumsnet is not the outside world. Women especially may either neglect, or de-prioritise unease with gender issues, to get a government that will fund the NHS, social care, housing, nursery education etc.

If Starmer botches things and it's a Hung parliament or minority Labour administration, the LDs, Greens and SNP will extract such concessions that Starmer likely will cave on demands from Leftist Progessives in his own party and minority parties to kowtow on at least the direction of travel being Self ID, at the very least absolute draconian laws on conversion therapy ban to include trans, rigid hate speech laws as being passed in Ireland where any skepticism expressed will be stamped on, enforced pronouns and absolute ban on misgendering locked tight.

So, a sweeping Labour win brings changes in, or Starmer does another U-turn when in power. Anyone happy to vote for him hoping helltvo lukewarm in power? A marginal win, and we're in unpredictable progessive overreach territory.

And the Conservatives, my natural party to vote for, a busted flush over 14 years by the time of the GE, only now upping their game on trans issues, yet too late and too incompetent, so that the only party half decent in this area, is almost guaranteed to hand over the keys.

So, that's our political landscape. Further pessimistic feelings generate reading Eliza Mondegreen's report on EPATH conference, just a Hellish narrative of total child abuse, being driven through into the medical mainstream.

Throw in the recent UNESCO and WHO proposals, a de facto prospectus to revitalise the PIE agenda, Self ID and hate speech laws ramping up all way across the West.

And sane voices to the contrary, obviously speaking to the ordinary man and woman in the street (JKR, Billboard Chris, Sharon Davies, Graham Linehan, Posie Parker etc), effectively still marginalised by the anxiety-laden freeze in public discourse.

This feels like a never ending (un)civil war, the TRA forces now strategically embedded in every leftist/centrist party throughout the West, MSM, and more and more rightist parties, civic society, either enthusiastic or acquiescing. Woke capitalism rounding up the forces of capital, actors and musicians and writers on board making the case, "social capital" so to speak.

So, as our brave GC rearguard action creates hits that truly shake this edifice, the direction of travel from the TRA leviathan feels inexorable.

It feels weird for big wins like the end of No Debate, Tavistock expose, IOC ruling, Starmer having to consider his messaging, Sturgeon falling on her sword over Adam Bryson, Nike and Bud Light humiliated in public.

But I'd say these remain skirmishes, the trans edifice is rolling over us slowly but surely.

For the last few decades I always argued as an atheist with my devout Christian friend that humans fuck it up but also fix it.

On trans issues, I'm now only believing the first bit of that sentence.

Am I right to be this down hearted? Who wants to pick me up? Lol.

It will fall into irrelevance because there will be bigger things to worry about.

Pines, my major, and I do mean major peaking was about this time 12 months ago. Nothing will ever quite compare to that.
I remain optimistic, with a heavy dose of realism. I certainly didn't last year.

Interestingly, I feel I've found myself in deciding to immerse in this furore.
Certainly it's taking me back to my late teenage years where I turned my back on religion and found my voice.

My main dilemmas ATM are my total isolation on this issue from what I call (im)polite society. If you'd have said any time in the past I'd be at odds with scientists, philosophers, ethicists, left politicians, artists, the MSM, I'd have asked what you're smoking.

And so it's come to pass. The left has been gripped by their own version of populism, and have created their own religion. Neither are for me, so bye bye so-called experts and champions of working people and free speech. You're now the enemy.

This is taking some adjusting to...

I always maintained that if it was us that Russia invaded and not Ukraine, this predisposition that's gripped peoples would literally valorise, as UK citizens would truly prioritise and come together, not pull apart.

There'd be not one trans related story if Bakhut was in Kent right now.

Or maybe the likes of Owen Jones and India Willoughby would be collating the Daily Misgender Tally to keep the culture war alive.

"Right" and "left" have long lost their utility as a way to understand what is going on. Paul Kingsnorth talks of the 'machine' and I think Mary Harrington speaks of bio realists and bio libertarians - both of these conceptualisations shed far more light. It takes major adjustment to having the rug pulled out from under you. Losing trust in mainstream institutions has serious consequences

If we’re going to be pessimistic, it will be precisely when we’re crammed into refugee camps caused by being displaced by rising water levels, that we hope those camps have single sex provision! The worse off we are, the harder this bullshit will hit us - exactly as it is now.

This is exactly my daughter, who is also a member of BACP and gave me a lecture about how my generation didn't believe in 'choice' because we were raised by parents traumatised by WW2 when they had no choice about anything.

I often wonder where and how young people are educated. They come up with the most uninformed comments about the world.

WW2 lead many, many people to be far more demanding than they had ever been. Did you know that there was a huge squatting movement after WWII and partly because of it the huge expanse in social housing. The Welfare State.

And the go on about everyone used to go to University for free. Well a very priviledge few (less than 20% I think) did.

Whining about the most disadvantage generation. What about young people who survived, if lucky, the depression. Or those sent off as cannon fodder in WWI.

So not saying that this daughter is any worse in terms of knowledge than any other, But where do this young people get their information? If this what persuading everyone should go on to higher education means. That you end up with less educated young people. My worry is they are all so easily duped that when and if they ever actually vote it will be based on some other piece of totally fabricated fact.

But then they are the generation that thinks you can change sex.

There's a very similar discussion about the future for women here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4799656-time-to-dust-off-your-labour-party-membership-and-support-lwd

I don't know how old you are, @Tanith but I am 73 and my daughter is 41, and my elder brother was born in 1939 and my father fought in WW2, so in our family's case she is right in assessing the impact of the war, though I do think that generation was in many ways more resilient than the current generation, because they had to be (as my daughter would see it).

Starmer and his advisers would have to be absolute idiots to push for any UK-wide pro-trans laws after seeing what happened with the SNP+Greens.

I suppose my point is, people who are currently worrying about trans issues (on either side of the debate) might try to get some perspective and look at what actually matters and is going to impact YOUR life, very soon.

The many very real changes that are likely to be happening over the next 5 years are quite scary. We should all be re-evaluating how we live and what we prioritise and put our energies into.

When I think about my 'fears for the future' as you've titled this thread, anything to do with worrying about either side of the trans debate comes very very low on my list at the moment.

This is exactly my daughter, who is also a member of BACP and gave me a lecture about how my generation didn't believe in 'choice' because we were raised by parents traumatised by WW2 when they had no choice about anything

There is trauma in my family from WW1 and 2 (we are not all young) but I fail to see the logical connection with choice. My Mother was conservative in her use of eggs and butter to her dying day though …

Of course I have other fears. The size of the burgeoning pothole outside my house right now is a big one.

But this subject is so broad ranging and such an own goal for society, and detracts from energy that could be better invested in the fears you highlight.

True - best way to address that is to stop focussing your own energy on it and starting threads like this, though, to be blunt.

We'll all be looking back on this time 5 years from now and wondering why we weren't focussing our energy on the things that really matter.

PotteringPondering · Today 15:11
The free speech/Orwellian aspects of it all. Many are genuinely outraged at the silencing of legitimate views (eg current letter to Edinburgh University).

I am afraid that once Self ID is introduced and more ideology entrenched in every institution, Orwellian speech will be fed into the AI language brain and a mash of chinese whispers will spew out. Meanwhile children will be brought up barely able to form a thought of their own because of AI doing it for them. Bodies and minds will increasingly be modified by the absorption of evil junk of various kinds.

I understand your analysis, but can't accept it. If it were really true that global warming and similar are existential crises, why do authorities dictate these TRA mantras that so cause angst and divide?

If we're truly all up against a common threat, why dissipate our common energy?

My main dilemmas ATM are my total isolation on this issue from what I call (im)polite society. If you'd have said any time in the past I'd be at odds with scientists, philosophers, ethicists, left politicians, artists, the MSM, I'd have asked what you're smoking.

And so it's come to pass. The left has been gripped by their own version of populism, and have created their own religion. Neither are for me, so bye bye so-called experts and champions of working people and free speech. You're now the enemy.

This is taking some adjusting to...

Every single word of this. The biggest head fuck ever. I have to hand it to the universe, I never saw this one coming.

It's up to you whether you accept the existential threats of global warming and AI or not, they are coming, and sooner than anyone has really realised.

Worrying about issues to do with trans right now is so meaningless it's laughable.

I don't want to scare anyone but I am trying to get my priorities straight and trying to spread the message that others might want to do the same. Focus your energies on things that matter.

Unfortunately Mumsnet is not the outside world.

Don't underestimate the general population.

I had encouraging discussions with people who are in positions of influence in the local education authority last week.

Throw in the recent UNESCO and WHO proposals, a de facto prospectus to revitalise the PIE agenda, Self ID and hate speech laws ramping up all way across the West.

A press conference that was supposed to happen didn't happen following Madrigal's meeting with some people on the women's side.

These are tiny things but could be positive in my eyes.

I did feel like you 6 months ago though

The less and less hidden part of all this is TransHumanism, where we're all consumers, gender, body parts, the works.

I agree here. Online immersion is fuelling this and it's a common theme in tv / film.

It's escapism but children are now used to buying stuff for avatars in online realms. Changing their looks and character. Or winning it in educational programmes. Most know what's real or not but some struggle to exist beyond online. It's clear that a number of TRAs can only "be" online.

@PennineWay it's possible to do both. Both issues are a direct result of individualism and consumerism.

Which is why the greens need to sort themselves out.

Deep Green resistance thinking has it all under the same roof.

I have worked with many elderly people very traumatised by war and that trauma shaped the permissive society of the 60’s & 70’s. I think the sexualisation and feminisation of women really ramped up in the 90’s as a backlash to women campaigning for equality. Women are really being put back in our boxes now. Too much to write really but basically this train has been on the track sometime.

It's possible to do both of course - but my feeling is that most people on here aren't engaging in an equivalent amount of participation in discussions around things like AI and climate change.

In my experience, people tend to get a bit of a hyper-focus on trans-related topics for some reason. It seems to dominate their thoughts and becomes their biggest concern. That's what I think we need to move away from. Yes think about it if it's something you care about, but we need perspective. In the scheme of things, this is so small, but it dominates so much of mumsnet - every day I see multiple threads about it.

I rarely if every see threads about AI, however it is a huge concern and it's rocketing towards us faster than most people realise. The next 5 years are going to be like nothing we have seen before.

This thread is titled 'my fears for the future' and I think if anyone's fears for the future are dominated by trans issues, they are seriously misplaced.

You misunderstand me, my wording wasn't helpful. I'm absolutely with you on the risks of global warming and AI. And agree with you we need to take heed.

My point to you is that if institutions and the left are of this view as well, which I think they are, why would they push a divisive philosophy like TRA which can only scupper efforts?

Unless you feel even if these threats didn't exist you'd still consider TRA as irrelevant as a negative.

Put it this way, if alien forces were congregating to attack the Earth, would world governments really push philosophies to sap our energies and willpower?

It's possible to do both of course - but my feeling is that most people on here aren't engaging in an equivalent amount of participation in discussions around things like AI and climate change.

I can't speak for others but personally those are the things I do talk about openly to friends. AI is hitting education in and we are discussing it. The visual art world has been having issues with AI for the last year or so.

Eco issues are also an issue in my work sphere, micro plastics particularly. Day to day I have more anxiety about that than GI (did anyone else cringe at the blue nylon horse hair yesterday for the coronation carriage?) I look back with horror about the amount of laminated crap that's occurred in schools in the last 25 years. (Eurythenes plasticus is on display in my local museum.)

A great deal of women here have been directly impacted by gender ideology. Their children specifically. We can't talk about it openly. This is one of the few places where questions can be asked. Women here are also being abused by partners who are caught in the idiocy. Mumsnet is a haven for women who've been abused. Trans widows started here.

Also siblings and children who've experienced the same kind of trauma/ loss/ abuse via transitioning siblings and parents .

The above is only from a personal perspective, but that's why I decided to join the greens over this rubbish. Yes they're appalling but the more of us who are in there, speaking out over their BS, the better.

I understand your perspective pennine. At the same time that's telling women (and here a man) to stfu. We've rather had enough of that.

Also, and this is probably controversial, but surely pbs which are highly dangerous and toxic to the environment, are entering the water systems somehow?