LWS Birmingham 14/05

[Babysharkdoodoodood]

Is anyone here going to this? I'm pondering whether to go and whether it will be safe.

I'm an ex gay and yes even I did find the woman's including paedophilia etc not good, it's really not true. LGBT don't have much/any more tolerance for paedoism than the rest of the community.

Drag Queen Story Hour is problematic though of course.

'queer' people aren't usually fans of paedos or 'zoophiles' either.

Conflating LGBT people with 'queer theory' would be a bit daft.

She has NEVER apologised to us in person

She apologised to your group directly, in public, in front of a large audience.

No, I don't believe her, she is not to be trusted.

There's no reason for us to disbelieve her. She said nothing that was pro-trans at all. People change their minds about the issues; I have before.

@ArabeIIaScott And conflating 'queer' with bestialists and paedoes isn't really fair either. Yes 'queer' is a broad church, and those groups might try to call themselves queer, but hardly any queer people would be fans or wish to be associated with those types at all.

Not just voyeurism, Bestiality is abuse of animals and I believe is illegal. Paedophilia is very much illegal. So, three of those listed are very clearly illegal and abusive. So, where in that tweet did that person tweeting this make it clear that they denounced these behaviours and that any person who was attempting to bring them under the banner of LGBTQ+ was abhorrent?

Where are the tweets detailing the actions taken to make it clear that trans people who have twitter profiles that also include age ranges of the children they are 'attracted' to have been actively shunned from the community?

Where are the tweets detailing the actions taken to denounce Peter Tatchell, a constant spokesperson for Stonewall and who very much supports what he calls 'intergenerational' sex. To the point that he has stated that not all sex with minors is abuse and has vocally advocated that a child bride should remain with her adult husband when British authorities put the teenaged girl into a care situation away from her Turkish husband only a few years ago.

Any tweets? No?

Thanks Merlin for your usual failed attempts to make a point that backfires on you. If you cannot find those tweets, it then shines a spotlight for all those reading along that there is none of those denouncements. There are no actions being taken publicly to deny that there are those who are actively engaged in lowering the sexual boundaries of children and women within the community of those protesting women speaking and attempting to silence women with intimidation and violence.

Sadly, the number of males with trans identities being arrested and convicted of sex crimes of the nature of those three crimes I mention is proof enough that there is an issue, and it needs to be spoken about. No one is saying 'all males' are doing this, and it would be ridiculous for anyone to say that.

However, there are some.

Why do you not want these three issues spoken about? If we do not speak about them, we cannot eliminate such abuses.

Cripes... that is grim. But thank you for your efforts.

Who is conflating 'queer' with those groups?

There are a few wrong'uns in every group. Don't get me wrong I'm not any fan of the trans etc obviously. If everyone has paedo age ranges in their bios, their accounts should be deleted and I imagine would be if reported- even Elon wouldn't be soft about that.

I'm ex-LGBT but I'll denounce it on Twitter if you want a sign of someone denouncing it.

I tweeted https://twitter.com/AngelicaF/status/1658126153968762883

@ArabeIIaScott One of the women speaking there did so. Don't get me wrong, a few crims might claim they're part of queer but the rest of us would denounce them completely and not consider them part of us at all.

As would happen in any other group.

Well done porridge! Glad to read you have already had something to say about Tatchell! Go you!

However, the speaker is talking about Queer Theory.

@Helleofabore As far as I heard she was saying that Queer includes bestiality, paedoism etc. It was definitely offensive to queer and a lot of LGBQ people how she said it.

She then had a go about Catholicism, but I suppose that's par for the course and I know there is some abuse in all groups, and abuse of power in virtually all hierarchical groups. Again, pretty much all Catholics, including priests, would denounce that.

She mentioned that they were under Queer Theory in that clip.

I believe that most of those would fall under the realm of Queer Theory, don't they? Certainly Foucault was active in paedophile activism. But also the lowering of sexual boundaries around paraphilias and kink.

I am happy to go back and listen to her full speech. But the section highlighted by this twitter account showed she said it was Queer Theory so I guess I am reacting to that alone.

Maybe you could tell me, maybe I have missed it, what you define as 'queer' vs what is LGB?

Also, people earlier in this thread were discussing this Merlin character and were asking where were the LGBQ denouncing paedoes etc.

Yes. That was me. And you have. However, prominent LGBT spokespeople and support groups such as Stonewall have not.

There are 'right wing' commentators who happen to be LGBTQ that have, such as Blair White.

Stonewall (who I'm not a fan of, of course) probably think that if they even mention the claims/few LGBTQ paedoes, they're playing into the myth that there are massive amounts of LGBTQ paedoes or something. So they don't say anything. I can understand that.

But they could whenever there was an individual case, denounce it.

As far as I heard she was saying that Queer includes bestiality, paedoism

But the shift in language from “gay” to “queer” came directly from the popularisation of Queer Theory. And by definition in Queer Theory, “queerness” includes those elements. It’s defined by deviance.

I don’t think for a second that most of the people who call themselves “queer” actually understand that definition or that origin, or would see themselves in the same category as sex criminals. But I don’t think that the speaker was arguing that they do. The shift in language matters in part because sinister elements have always used “queer” as an umbrella term for gay people and dangerous paraphiliacs, in an attempt to lump the gay rights struggle together with much less sympathetic and reasonable “causes.”

As far as I understand it 'queer theory' is all about undermining heteronormativity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_theory

'Queer theory is a field of post-structuralism that emerged in the early 1990s out of queer studies (often, formerly, gay and lesbian studies) and women's studies.[1] The term can have various meanings depending upon its usage, but has been broadly associated with the study and theorisation of gender and sexual practices that exist outside of heterosexuality, and which challenge the notion that heterosexual desire is 'normal'.'

It's all a bit academic beyond that point, for me, anyway.

I agree. They could denounce it. There are plenty of convicted sex crimes that are under the ‘T’, and Stonewall and prominent UK spokespeople do not seek to comment ever. Even when it is pertinent. And tatchell is wheeled out constantly.

Maybe it is hard to denounce some paraphilias when you have males dressed as dogs being patted by toddlers at Pride.

Hard to denounce voyeurs in female toilets when you are the ones responsible for them being there.

Either way, she said queer theory right after listing those paraphilias. It is very relevant to make this distinction.

Apologises for starting another thread late last night when I hear 2 women had been assualted.

Here is a statement from the mother of one of them https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4806258-let-women-speak-birmingham-2-women-assaulted?reply=126180789