Caroline F - new arrest / harassment ?

[catsrus]

Caroline has just posted on twitter that the police were trying to force entry - WTF going on?

Three officers saying she has to go with them.

Three.

twitter.com/cf_farrow/status/1651514281471492096?s=46&t=rbPMHI1uvxUAiQC4E1EE3A

This is a great post.

Essentially the police are being used to harass and abuse CF. And by the 2nd, 3rd or 4th time I don't think 'following procedure' is a good enough excuse and becomes less so each time. If you know the complainant is a serial liar who enjoys stalking and harassing women why on earth would you take a report from them at the same value as from anyone else?

What about looking at the tweet / allegation and deciding if it actually breaks any laws first? It seems the latest harassment of Posie was for 'misgendering' - using correct English is not a crime in law. Saying things other people don't like is not a crime in law.

There were also takeaway delivery companies being used to harass CF (did the police investigate this and find out who was doing it? I'd be surprised if they did) - but in that case CF could contact those businesses and ask them not to take any orders to be delivered to her which, being decent people and not wanting to be used by abusers/ criminals, no doubt they did.

Given that police intrusion for evidence collection / being arrested for interview etc is of course traumatising why on earth are they not showing the same level of basic decency as take away companies?

When police procedure means they are becoming a tool that abusers can use to abuse women, and are behaving less humanely than take away companies, then there is something profoundly wrong with the police and the law.

And of course THIS ability of abusive men to use the police as a tool (often a seemingly quite enthusiastic one - bit like the police in Iran 'following procedure' and beating up women not wearing the hijab) is why so many women are scared of coming out as GC.

We can see this pattern of police being used by abusers clearly it has been repeated with CF and KJK. Of course others who have been harassed in this way are intimidated into silence, even when found not guilty of anything. The process is the punishment. The impact on freedom of speech for women is profound.

In several cases where KJK has been abused by the police the CPS rejected the case and it is clear from hearing her words and watching the video of the events where they were uttered that she did and said nothing unlawful - unless hurting a TRA's feelings is unlawful. Far, far more hateful things, and direct threats, have been made against KJK and they've done nothing. It's a misuse of police time with a very clear political agenda driving it.

Related thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4796911-how-many-gender-critical-feminists-are-actually-out?page=3&reply=125856776

And just to say - it means that the police force is actually breaking the law, because they are being used to stalk, harass, abuse and control women. E.g. Kate Scottow was denied sanpro when thrown into jail for saying a man couldn't be a woman on twitter. Which is the worse breach of human rights and crime? 99.99% of people would say the denial of a basic female need.

I think I'm at the point where I trust the police- particularly certain police forces - about the same amount as I'd trust the police in Iran to treat women speaking their mind fairly. I bet they're 'following procedure' over there too.

Tweets can be a criminal offence. Freedom of speech is not unfettered.

If CF or KJK were repeatedly contacting a third party with threats and/or abuse or telling other people to, it could be harassment.

It’s not clear where the law stands when a block is involved.

If you have blocked someone on social media but they are looking up your posts or getting other people to, how is this illegal or harassment?

CF hasn’t posted bomb threats. She’s posted about feeling traumatised by online abuse and how the police have been weaponised by people she believes are abusing her.

She’s also posted public information that other people would prefer to be hidden. But so too have other people, including one with hundreds of thousands of followers.

I don’t know about the second but her first arrest appears disproportionate and this has caused her to spiral.

This is what the police ought to take into account. They have a measure of responsibility for what has happened.

3rd time WTAF are the police playing at.

Exactly @andweallsingalong That was what I was trying to say in my response to our policesplainer upthread. It’s really clear that “persons unknown” (ha ha!) are using the police complaints process to harass Ms. Farrow.

Ignore sealions.@FGCPC I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now. You said "Based on what I know about CF in the past, do I think this could be a vexatious complaint? Yes. Does that mean I don't think she should be investigated? No, that would depend on what exactly the allegation was, how credible it was and the evidence required to prove it."

The police should be applying a high standard for investigating based on knowing that allegations of harm to transpeople from women have probably never been proven, unless you count hurty feelings and the police have been told by ministers to stick to actual crimes . Therefore such allegations should be regarded as extremely unlikely to cause harm and hence low priority for investigation. The only credible explanation for why that is not happening is that the police are mysogynist.

Try to condense this a bit but its probably long sorry.

My child was arrested for something and nothing, seriously it was nothing.

First he was arrested months later than the "crime" and I'm talking the following year here.

Second, while I was waiting outside the police station "cos they wanted to soften him up by being put in a cell for several hours before they interviewed him" I got talking to someone who's wife had been arrested for assaulting someone 6 years previously. 6 years. <turns out she couldn't have assaulted anyone in the UK because she was on holiday in Turkey or somewhere the week of the alleged incident.

I got the very general vibe that it was a really slow day in the police force and they were just hauling people in that otherwise wouldnt have been.

So for Caro to be arrested (I think) the same day as her no show is bullshit. The police allegedly dont have time for such things. Means I believe they are being deployed just to shut women up.

If she is telling the truth, CF was arrested within a hour of her no show. The police must have thought her tweets presented a clear and present danger.

Not read the full thread as scrolling past the obnoxious policeman was tedious.

How can the dude possibly think his posts do anything other than increase women's suspicion of police.

Or is that the objective?

Is this just a massive willy waving exhibition to him because he can?

We've only got his word that he even is a police officer.

There are certain people who would gen up on everything to do with the police force, like groupies.

We've only got his word that he even is a police officer.

There are certain people who would gen up on everything to do with the police force, like groupies.

True dude’s a creep whatever way you look at it, but the tedious posts are depressingly on brand for the police these days.

Even leaving saddo felix out the police have done an awesome job the last few years making many law abiding middle aged women mistrust and dislike the police.

But not such a ‘clear and present danger’ that they weren’t ok about organising the time of the interview few days in advance.

It's interesting how CF's no show and tweets warrant such action.

Whereas Couzen's flashing - an actual crime - lead to nothing despite there being witnesses according to many reports. Seems they didn't 'follow procedure' there and we all know the result of that failure to act.

Funny how actual crimes with strong evidence are ignored yet procedure must be followed when women say mean words on twitter.

Plus the many death threats TRAs send out. A disabled woman called Henrietta has been threatened a LOT recently, including with a picture of what looks.like a homemade bomb. Yet...nothing...nada.

And people keep saying - "why do i keep repeating myself"

dimorphism
It's interesting how CF's no show and tweets warrant such action.

We don't know that this is the case. The thread is about the police action at Caroline's a few days ago. We don't know if its linked to the tweets and the no show for the vol interview. You might think that it must be - but we don't know 100%

If it is - then of course her past history is very, very relevant and should be taken into account.

If the reporting person is a vexatious caller - this needs to be taken into consideration. The caller has to have some evidence to offer for the crime in any case.

If it can be proven that they have lied to harass Caroline by getting the police involved with her - they should be reported for making a false allegation etc etc

DerekFaker
Plus the many death threats TRAs send out. A disabled woman called Henrietta has been threatened a LOT recently, including with a picture of what looks.like a homemade bomb. Yet...nothing...nada.

So has she reported this to the police and what have they done?
Has she asked for any update or a review if it was closed?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ex-met-police-pc-failed-112614152.html

So the police officer who failed to act on reports of Couzens flashing is now facing a misconduct hearing but we do have to ask whether this would have happened had he not gone on to murder. I doubt it.

Given how many women report harrassment, threats, flashing and rape to the police and nothing is done I think scepticism is reasonable. I myself know a woman who reported a rape to the police and very little seemed to have been done to gather evidence (despite the fact it was very likely other woman would have suffered the same given his profession) and she was essentially told to go away and deal with it. I doubt she would bother reporting a rape again as the treatment she received from the police was traumatising and made everything worse.

Whilst this police officer has been held to account how many more are there who haven't been.... it's institutional failure, clearly, and holding the odd officer to account won't make any difference.

andweallsingalong · Today 08:45
@Felix125 I wouldn't normally post on these kinds of thread, but I take great offence to your policesplaining and repeating that we all need to be good little mumsnetters and wait and see what she's charged with. I got and respected your POV the 1st time. After many repeats it feels like you're trying to silence discussion and are being rude.

The reason why I keep repeating is that other posters keep throwing the same argument back at me all the time.

Q "The Police are definitely wrong"
Me "Well we don't know why they attended"
Q "Well you need to read the back story first"
Me "Is the Police visit on this occasion linked to the back story"
Q "I don't know - but the police were definitely wrong to attend"

I agreed with the other officer on here - and I agree we are swamped with jobs & safeguarding

I agree with you that the system needs to change - but what would you like to see as part of that change with callers reporting the same people over & over - like Caroline has endured.

After say 5 reports from the same caller which has not resulted in a prosecution, do we ignore any further calls from that caller if they are making similar allegations against the same person?

If so - how are your victims of domestic violence going to fit in with this? DV victims will often make numerous calls to police against their partner a lot of which never result in a prosecution for various reasons. Even if we go evidence led it often doesn't result in a prosecution.

How about suicidal people, missing from homes - 5th call they don't get a response?

Also - obviously - the misconduct hearing, even if the police officer is found guilty, won't bring Sarah Everard back. It's not ok that the police are not doing their job properly and fairly. It causes harm.

It's a bit different if the calls are about a male bodied person being violent to a female bodied person - the risk of harm is different to a woman tweeting bad words about a man. Isn't it meant to be risk based?

You know, like how male bodied people flashing (a crime) is often a prelude to worse crimes against women. So maybe put the evidence submitted about that up the list above spending days of police time on Posie using the wrong pronouns? FFS

dimorphism
Of course - and officers like that need rooting out as soon as possible. The slightest hint should be acted upon to safeguard potential future victims.

So we should listen to what has been reported and act upon it.

dimorphism
You know, like how male bodied people flashing (a crime) is often a prelude to worse crimes against women. So maybe put the evidence submitted about that up the list above spending days of police time on Posie using the wrong pronouns? FFS

I completely agree - and everything should be organised under threat, harm & risk.

But crimes that don't feature high up in that category will still need to be dealt with at some point.

That's why Posie was interviewed months after the alleged offence. It was quite low down on the priority list

And why police take ages to investigate ongoing crime enquiries because every day there will be another high risk missing from home or mental health breakdown or cell watch etc etc that takes priority.

I saw the tweet with the photo of the homemade bomb. That was horrific.

One thing to point out is that most (not all) of the people who post things like that do so with anonymous accounts, meaning it is more difficult (although not always necessarily impossible) for the police to get anywhere. With Caroline it’s very different; she posts in her own name, is already under police investigation, the background between her and the (likely) complainant is known to the police etc …

CF has posted some things about a person who she is in a long standing online dispute who is very good at provoking and goading her. I’m not linking to them here. The tweets aren’t pleasant, I think she calls him a town in Scotland and posts a fact-based opinion or 2, but they don’t constitute a threat.

They are on a mutual block but still seem to be accessing each others’ tweets and responding to them. 🙄

He talks about going to Surrey and drops unsubtle hints about her kids, she flips her lid and calls him out.

He reports her to the police for harassment and malicious comms citing her Twitter and saying she’s the phantom meme poster of Kiwistaan and she gets arrested.

He continues to shitpost about her. She reciprocates.

That is basically it. And it needs 4 officers to come and arrest her.