Work DEI response: single-sex toilets

[ToriaB]

Excerpted response below from my email to the head of DEI where I work; my question and his answer.

Tempted to respond by saying "Humans don't change sex".

Just to confirm – does this mean that [this higher education institution] are no longer offering single-sex facilities at the study centres?

No – there is no change to our facilities, [the higher education institution] are continuing to provide single-sex facilities. Trans men may use male designated toilets and Trans women may use female designated toilets, as is our current policy. We are also investigating the possibility of our accessible toilets broadening their scope so that they may be used as a gender-neutral, single-lockable space.

I suggest you go in with a precis of your concerns, which you can either just use as a reminder, or can give to HR if appropriate. Depending on how things go, it may be appropriate to take a listening approach to this meeting, and then to formulate a written response after the meeting.
Do you know what the purpose of the meeting is? If not, then presumably it will either be to discuss your concerns, or it will be to criticise you for "hassling" the equality and diversity person, or for having the "wrong" views.

I would check. Ask for his definitions of 'transwomen' and 'transmen'.

Good luck and well done.

Be sure to make them squirm by asking for anything they say in writing for reference.

I am getting "lets do this verbally for plausible deniability" vibes. 😒 When my manager wants to do this, she phones or comes to see us rather than reply to my impertinent email. 😄

This is the policy in my workplace as well. In fact if I object to sharing with trans identifying men, I will be re-educated and told to find other facilities elsewhere in the building. (paraphrasing ever so slightly)

This nonsense is why I quit my HEI D&I role. I now work with one specific PC rather than all of them and I am not responsible for D&I anymore, that's someone else leading on that. We ate mostly WFH which also helps although our pride network does lots of trans web talks (I'm far too busy sadly)

I've replied explaining that it's difficult for me to get to Head Office - it's some distance from where I'm based, there's no public transport links and I don't drive.
I've said I'd prefer to have the meeting by Teams. If they agree to the meeting being on Teams I'll ask if they mind it being recorded.

I think you're right that a listening approach is possibly best, not to get caught into any type of discussion but asking them to state the university's position and how it meets the queries I've already raised.

Am very cautious that it could be a re-education meeting, hence asking me to come into Head Office for a face to face so they can squash the trouble-making toilet bigot

If you take a note at the meeting (assuming it's not recorded), then after the meeting you can very quickly send an email setting out what was said at the meeting and asking any necessary questions to confirm / clarify what was said. Then you'll have a written record which the HR person will have to disagree with in writing, or will essentially be deemed to have agreed with. You can then add anything necessary to what was said at the meeting (eg refer to research, Cass, etc).

Do ask for the meeting to be videoed. You also need to make a note (the video may disappear). It may be difficult to take a note whilst the meeting is going on, so aim to do it straight afterwards; write down everything you can remember and then sign and date it.

OP I think your approach of doing it on teams and recording it is by far the best. Good luck, I hope it goes well

I honestly don't understand why the toilets are such an issue in most of the workplaces I have been in we just had "toilets"

They weren't assigned sex or gender just toilets

If you read around a bit Maddy, you'll find the reasons and issues experienced by female people not quite as lucky as you are, and who haven't been able to just be oblivious to all this. And who can't just stop needing to pee etc because male people need female spaces for validation purposes and apparently cannot cope with a compromise situation to meet other people's inclusion needs as well as their own.

Maddy, this isn't just a work place: it's a place of study and the policy impacts on students who I don't believe have been consulted. We have a lot of Muslim hijabi women studying with us and this effects them.
HSE requires of workplaces that separate rooms containing conveniences are provided for men and women except where and so far as each convenience is in a separate room the door of which is capable of being secured from inside.

Most of your workplaces had mixed toilets? Really?

If you work for a university, your toilet policy applies to thousands of staff and students.

Different sexes, nationalities, races, religious beliefs etc. EDI policies need to make sure that everyone is accommodated and no protected section of society is disadvantaged (for example where I work there are separate worship areas for male and female Muslims).

I feel there is clearly a clash of rights happening right now and we need to ensure that the rights of one group don’t trump the rights of another.

It feels to me that at the moment women’s rights to single sexed spaces are being eroded, and those who point this out are labelled bigots.

Just send yourself an email.

Are you very young? Not been in work long? Mixed sex toilets are not the norm, haven't been the norm in the UK at all. I've never worked in a workplace that had mixed sex facilities, and I've worked in lots and lots of different buildings large medium and small.

So modern!

If it's on video conferencing record the audio yourself with your phone (as long as you're not wearing headphones!) then transcribe it. Eg "in our meeting you said this..." and quote it word for word. You can tell them you are recording it as it's stressful and you're ensuring you remember everything whilst being under stress. You may be on your own and there may be more than one of them, so as someone mentioned above, you can't take accurate notes and take part in the meeting at the same time. It's fine to record it. Or it should be.

Have you had your meeting yet, OP?

Actually it makes me want to bang his head against a wall. Good thing I'm on the other side of the world

They went quiet when I asked for the meeting to be on Teams so it could be recorded.

Today I queried some of the links from IDAHOBIT (they'd linked to this in resources for allies: Impact of Anti-Gender Opposition on TGD and LGBTQI Movements ) and got this response re single-sex facilities:

"We have been in correspondence with you via email since early April, following the launch of the [Institution] Transitioning at Work Policy, specifically about your query in regards to [Institution]’s responsibilities under the Equality Act 2010 and HSE legislation for the provision of single-sex toilets.

Whilst we understand you believe your query to hold validity, we have explained that there is no change that impacts our organisation’s duties under the law - employment or health and safety. [Institution] will continue to provide single-sex toilets in all University buildings. Individuals protected by the policy and law continue to be supported and treated with dignity and respect.

We do not feel the need to continue communicating further on this matter via email.

Kind regards

Man

He does not acknowledge that if you allow transwomen to use women's toilets they cease to be single-sex. It's properly we have always been at war with Eastasia.

I've responded

My concern is that although we are saying that our toilets are single-sex we are permitting people of the opposite sex to access them on the basis of their self-identified gender identity.
"[Institution] are continuing to provide single-sex facilities. Trans men may use male designated toilets and Trans women may use female designated toilets, as is our current policy."
These statements are contradictory. Can you confirm you have taken advice from our legal department on this matter?

Can you also confirm that you are refusing to share the Equality Impact Assessment, if one took place, and also refusing to share the details of the consultation with staff and students which you referred to earlier in correspondence?

As I have already said, I would be willing to meet to discuss this issue but my strong preference is for this to be a Teams meeting which can be recorded.

Well done OP. I’m in similar discussions at my workplace and it’s infuriating.

Keep going OP. 💐