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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Has anyone else been forced to become Conservative after all of this?

357 replies

ponderingsoul · 22/04/2023 11:31

Probably the wrong wording, but I'm curious - after always considering myself fairly left wing/ liberal and generally voting Labour (or tactically Lib Dem when I was in the SW), I no longer really consider them a valid option for me because of their gender views/ inability to take a view.

Has this happened to anyone else? Never thought I'd be a Tory, but now feel like I have no choice as this issue is so important to me.

OP posts:
NotHavingIt · 23/04/2023 19:16

Lavenderlaze · 23/04/2023 19:11

To be absolutely clear, I am not here to convince people to vote labour. If the party can't do that then they need to sort their own house out because it should be an own goal.
I'm not a 'rah rah rah labour are great' poster. I thought I'd made that clear.

It's also not for me to convince people to vote with integrity and genuine social conscience.

I'll just carry on doing what I do and promoting social justice and equality in how I live my life and what I do in my community and society.

Stop tagging me because this is just pointless.

Responding to your points is not 'tagging'. Don't post shit about what you think people are like if you really don't want any responses.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 23/04/2023 19:19

Feminism as it is on this forum on this board is unlike any sort of feminism I've ever encountered anywhere and I have learned so much because it really helps to understand the mentality of the sort of people who are a danger to you

So, @DojaPhat it's OK for you to impune every woman on this board, and describe them as dangerous, not true feminists, and imply that there is something wrong with their mentality, but you're clutching your pearls over 'numpty'. Seems a little hypocritical, don't you think?

NotHavingIt · 23/04/2023 19:25

DojaPhat · 23/04/2023 19:10

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow You can make the point you are making without using such language towards me. I have not said that Labour are doing any better, nor that they definitely have my vote. Keir's talents from where I'm standing seem to be testing out which direction the wind is blowing from the fence he's sitting on. The tories don't need 'people like' me to do their work for them, all they have to do is wheel out catch phrases about women and penises to have the adoration of many women who are not acting under any misguided belief that the tories have the interests of women at heart. I am not a numpty and will not engage further with you on this offensive remark you have made.

Do you realise how dismissive and patronising you are are coming across as?

You are suggesting that people posting eher have no political integrity of their own, and are easily led.

The truth is if it wasn't for many of those posting here then none of the political parties would be willing to talk about the issue of women's sex based rights. It is due to the hard work and commitment of many here, and elsewhere, that this has even been taken up, latterly, by the media and even by our own parliament.

The Labour party had been saying " No debate" for years - and calling WPUK and FPFW 'Hate groups'. Are you aware of how many former Labour party people there are here, and how many have been side-lined and censured by that same Labour Party? The Labour Women's Declaration was refused a stall at conference last year. The Labour party refuses to stand by women when they speak out; they refuse to stand by their own Mps..........and you really think that people might still be prepared vote for them under those conditions?

DojaPhat · 23/04/2023 19:28

@NotHavingIt Dismissive, patronising and nothing short of a bigot? I need to update my LinkedIn bio. I have, however, not said anything about Labour.

NotHavingIt · 23/04/2023 19:32

DojaPhat · 23/04/2023 19:28

@NotHavingIt Dismissive, patronising and nothing short of a bigot? I need to update my LinkedIn bio. I have, however, not said anything about Labour.

Yes, that's right. Supercillious, moralising and bigoted. What gave you the nerve to suggest what sort of 'feminists ' we might be? You have zero idea.
I don't don't normally choose to respond to people in such ways - but you take the biscuit for arrogance.

DojaPhat · 23/04/2023 19:40

@NotHavingIt I understand the feminists on here have no other choice but to vote for the tories, or spoil their ballots, based on their lived experiences which have bought them to this point. It's just the state of affairs really. Kudos to you however, who became vegetarian shortly after your 16th birthday and just before you picked your A-level subjects.

RufustheSpecuIatingreindeer · 23/04/2023 19:45

DojaPhat · 23/04/2023 19:40

@NotHavingIt I understand the feminists on here have no other choice but to vote for the tories, or spoil their ballots, based on their lived experiences which have bought them to this point. It's just the state of affairs really. Kudos to you however, who became vegetarian shortly after your 16th birthday and just before you picked your A-level subjects.

I doubt its all the feminists on here…with the whole ‘not a hive mind’ thing going on

NotHavingIt · 23/04/2023 19:58

DojaPhat · 23/04/2023 19:40

@NotHavingIt I understand the feminists on here have no other choice but to vote for the tories, or spoil their ballots, based on their lived experiences which have bought them to this point. It's just the state of affairs really. Kudos to you however, who became vegetarian shortly after your 16th birthday and just before you picked your A-level subjects.

I don't call myself a 'feminist anymore. I'm a woman who thinks that women have integrity as women and they matter.

Feminism' has just just another branch of identity politics for many , I feel. When women, as a discrete and distinct sex class, don't exist anymore without having to be qualified by terms such as 'cis' - how can you look after their interests .

NotHavingIt · 23/04/2023 19:58

has just become.....

dcbc1234 · 23/04/2023 22:06

Yes for sure. Also live in Scotland currently so that is an extra reason as I would never ever vote SNP. The Tory sometimes wins in my MP's seat. I used to be a tactical anti Tory voter and Labour member until Corbyn; but no more free speech is the only thing which is allowing the genderwoo to be rolled back.

ColdMeg · 24/04/2023 07:58

Lavenderlaze · 23/04/2023 12:47

I would choose Labour over Tory every time but I hold my nose doing so. I am under bI used to suggest tactically voting Lib Dem in certain areas but wouldn't again after the damage they did in coalition.

For me, voting Tory is abhorrent. I weep at the damage they have done each and every time they have been in power. Labour are problematic and I can't stand Starmer but things were better under the last labour government. We had better investment in education and health, we had policies that were improving life chances and bringing down child poverty.

I am not wholly aligned with any main party really, I have been left of labour since the 90s.

Things were better under the last Labour government because Brown spent over tax receipts in top of a cheap credit inflated economy every year from 2001 to 2008. When that cheap credit disappeared, tax receipts collapsed by £200 billion and we were left with liabilities we could no longer fund.

That was the reason for austerity.

Prior to 2001, because of the New Labour pledge to keep to Tory spending plans in their first term, there was no money (there never has been really) for new schools and hospitals, but Labour had promised them. That's why they used PFI, which has strangled the NHS in punative costs ever since.

It's very easy to fund things when you borrow. The problem comes when your income collapses and you've huge liabilities every month, or your repayments become unmanageable. When you looked at all our unfunded liabilities in 2009, including pensions, the situation was far worse than Greece. The only decent thing Brown did was keep us out of the euro, probably because he couldn't have done what he did if we'd been part of the EMU.

I wish Labour had won the 2010 election. They would have had to address the extraordinary economic and financial mess they had made.

Twenty-one years, it took, from 1979 to get the British state budget to balance. We had to go through all the carnage of the 80s, and for what? For Labour to do it all again after 2001.

I left the Labour Party over it in 2005 because I could see what they were doing. You cannot make wholesale, stable changes within society by creating liabilities that you cannot fund long term. We were told "things would get better". What we got was an enormous party that few of us were invited to, and we've ended up with the bill.

Rosula · 24/04/2023 08:48

Yet, 13 years after Labour left office, we have one of the weakest economies in the western world. So it's not as if you can suggest the Tories have got it right.

Anklespraying · 24/04/2023 08:58

Rosula · 24/04/2023 08:48

Yet, 13 years after Labour left office, we have one of the weakest economies in the western world. So it's not as if you can suggest the Tories have got it right.

Are you one of those Labour people that only measure success in terms of greater consumption? And who likes to be considered better than other countries?

Rosula · 24/04/2023 09:09

Anklespraying · 24/04/2023 08:58

Are you one of those Labour people that only measure success in terms of greater consumption? And who likes to be considered better than other countries?

No, I measure success in part against other countries that are doing so much better than us in terms of social welfare whilst keeping their economy stable. I also measure success in terms of not having an economy that has been needlessly tanked whether due to Brexit, Truss/Kwarteng, or whatever. But primarily I measure it in terms of having a government that runs a country where I do not see crumbling services everywhere, whether it's in terms of health (including mental health care), social care, education, policing, the justice system, farming support, transport, drainage, the environment ... and also having a government that is not demonstrably favouring its members, relatives and friends in terms of tax and government contracts.

TooBigForMyBoots · 24/04/2023 09:35

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 23/04/2023 18:54

You do realise that Labour lost the last election? And that can only win the next one by getting people who voted Tory last time to vote Labour. Yet you and other numpties like you are hell-bent on alienating anyone who has ever voted Tory. You are doing the Tories' work for them.

Most people in the UK did not vote Tory. Doesn't mean they are Labour supporters.

Namechange5544 · 24/04/2023 09:38

Never voted Conservative, never ever will.

Anklespraying · 24/04/2023 09:41

What does "tanked* mean though? All those sad remainers keep saying it and yet we all got up and went to work this morning.

tank
/taŋk/
Learn to pronounce
See definitions in:
All
Motoring
Sport · Informal
verb
past tense: tanked; past participle: tanked
1.
fill the tank of a vehicle with fuel.
"the cars stopped to tank up"
2.
INFORMAL•US
fail completely, especially at great financial cost.
"the previous movie had tanked at the box office"

Claiming the economy has failed completely is the usual pointless hyperbole. Surely the only people you depress with this empty catastrophising is other sad remainers? I feel a bit sad for you that you are so stuck in the past and can't move on. You seem to want things to be bad .

TooBigForMyBoots · 24/04/2023 10:27

Trusterfuck economics nearly bankrupted the UK.
My region has had its budget slashed by 10%. Which realistically is more like 20% because of inflation.
Brexit damaged our trading with our closest neighbours.
Austerity has led to our essential workers striking.

That is what people mean by tanked. The Tories have destroyed women's rights and destroyed the British economy.

Laladybird · 24/04/2023 16:01

I don't agree with superlatives like 'destroyed'.

Women in Britain aren't treated like women in Afghanistan. This is still a G8 economy. More detail and context is needed for such assertions to carry any weight.

The Q is would Ed Milliband or Jeremy Corbyn have done any better with the same circumstances?

blackpearwhitelilies · 24/04/2023 16:45

Well neither Corbyn nor Milliband would have channelled billions to suspect firms for PPE. By that measure alone the UK would have been significantly better off.

Redebs · 24/04/2023 16:53

ponderingsoul · 22/04/2023 11:31

Probably the wrong wording, but I'm curious - after always considering myself fairly left wing/ liberal and generally voting Labour (or tactically Lib Dem when I was in the SW), I no longer really consider them a valid option for me because of their gender views/ inability to take a view.

Has this happened to anyone else? Never thought I'd be a Tory, but now feel like I have no choice as this issue is so important to me.

Nothing in the world would make me vote Tory.
Might consider CP if there's a local candidate

blackpearwhitelilies · 25/04/2023 09:39

It will be interesting to see how the Tories vote on Labour’s proposals to clamp down on sexual harassment in the workplace.

CliantheLang · 27/04/2023 18:14

blackpearwhitelilies · 25/04/2023 09:39

It will be interesting to see how the Tories vote on Labour’s proposals to clamp down on sexual harassment in the workplace.

Certainly it depends on how 'sexual harassment' is defined. For example, does the definition include using correct pronouns for everyone?

I mean, we've already seen what the left considers to be 'conversion therapy'; i.e. allowing confused children to access psychological help.

macj1 · 04/05/2023 11:35

Notice for any Labour/Lib Dem/Green supporters on this site: whilst out canvassing for a seat as a Conservative on my local council, I've had a wonderful reception, thanks ENTIRELY to the issue of the TRA issue. Any time I met a confirmed member of the above parties, or a disaffected Tory, I just said:

'I couldn't vote for a party that believes a woman can have a penis; that believes adult men should be in the showers with our 8 year old daughters at the local swimming pool and in our toilets; that Karen White, the rapist who attacked women whilst housed in a woman's prison, who has since had his penis inverted at our expense on the NHS, should be allowed to get a Gender Recognition Certificate on his release and then access women's single sex spaces.'

Mostly - I got laughs - shock - support - pledges to vote - I even got a Green canvasser to apologise for supporting the Greens who are captured by this ideology - NOBODY could argue back. At all.

I have had a fantastic campaign as a result - in the midst of this, the Male Cyclist stole the women's money in New Mexico and may enter the Olympics. It's the gift that keeps giving, politically, and the hill that the other parties will die on. An 80 year old who hated Boris and Rishi, who had a wife and daughters, immediately identified what a woman was - and pledged his enthusiastic support - he'd read about the theiving cyclist already.

Pass on the message to your politicians if you want your parties to get back into power.

AGovernmentOfLawsAndNotMen · 04/05/2023 11:37

macj1 · 04/05/2023 11:35

Notice for any Labour/Lib Dem/Green supporters on this site: whilst out canvassing for a seat as a Conservative on my local council, I've had a wonderful reception, thanks ENTIRELY to the issue of the TRA issue. Any time I met a confirmed member of the above parties, or a disaffected Tory, I just said:

'I couldn't vote for a party that believes a woman can have a penis; that believes adult men should be in the showers with our 8 year old daughters at the local swimming pool and in our toilets; that Karen White, the rapist who attacked women whilst housed in a woman's prison, who has since had his penis inverted at our expense on the NHS, should be allowed to get a Gender Recognition Certificate on his release and then access women's single sex spaces.'

Mostly - I got laughs - shock - support - pledges to vote - I even got a Green canvasser to apologise for supporting the Greens who are captured by this ideology - NOBODY could argue back. At all.

I have had a fantastic campaign as a result - in the midst of this, the Male Cyclist stole the women's money in New Mexico and may enter the Olympics. It's the gift that keeps giving, politically, and the hill that the other parties will die on. An 80 year old who hated Boris and Rishi, who had a wife and daughters, immediately identified what a woman was - and pledged his enthusiastic support - he'd read about the theiving cyclist already.

Pass on the message to your politicians if you want your parties to get back into power.

I understand a lot of women voters are going to mess up their voting card though.
Effectively loosing their vote.
That doesn’t help anything….what are they doing…

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