Page 11 | Has anyone else been forced to become Conservative after all of this?

ponderingsoul · 2023-04-22T10:31:52+00:00

Probably the wrong wording, but I'm curious - after always considering myself fairly left wing/ liberal and generally voting Labour (or tactically Lib Dem when I was in the SW), I no longer really consider them a valid option for me because of their gender views/ inability to take a view. Has this happened to anyone else? Never thought I'd be a Tory, but now feel like I have no choice as this issue is so important to me.

Fairislefandango · 23/04/2023 14:38

No, I can't bring myself to vote Tory. I will be spoiling my ballot paper. Lib Dems always win here anyway, but obviously I can't vote for them either. I bet my local Lib Dem MP knows what a woman is. Unfortunately he also has somewhat problematic views about homosexuality, which is pretty much why he's no longer leader!

Nanalisa60 · 23/04/2023 15:21

I’m sick of the lot of them.

macj1 · 23/04/2023 16:13

Totally - never imagined even 3 years ago that I'd be a paid up member of the Conservatives, standing in the Local Council Elections - unlike other posters here I don't blame the Tories for being in power whilst this disgusting ideology has infiltrated every aspect of our lives - 13 years ago we trusted and liked Stonewall, 13 years ago gay marriage in the UK was illegal. This vile movement set out to capture Stonewall and our major institutions by stealth, (as well documented elsewhere); the Tories have woken up to it and have started to take it down. The other parties are still absolutely captured by the 'kindness' narrative.

Campaigning on the doorstep right now all I have to do when I meet a committed voter for another party is ask whether they want to vote for parties that support the lovely Isla gaining a Gender Recognition Certificate (without SRS, which is not required for that piece of legal fiction) and then, on release from prison, walk around naked swinging his glory in our local girls swimming pool changing room...

Suggest if others committed to their parties - Greens, Labour, Lib/Dems - let them know that support of this ideology is making them un-electable.

Laladybird · 23/04/2023 16:14

It's 99.9% likely that Labour will continue with their commitment to gender ideology and introduce self id if they win the next election.

If at the time that looks to be the case then I will vote for the candidate who knows that TWATW. If no candidate then I will have to spoil my ballot.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 23/04/2023 17:31

Lavenderlaze · 23/04/2023 13:01

It's a shame that people aren't taking into account the words and behaviour of people like Brendan O'Neill before throwing their lot in with them.

But crack on and see where it gets you. From what I see it's doing you all no favours outside of the echo chamber of Mumsnet and other forums.

I wonder at times whether the Tories pretend to be Labour supporters on SM. Because how stupid would you have to be, to want Labour to win, yet think that the way to do it is to call floating voters stupid?

Look at the number of posts on this thread alone, calling wavering voters stupid or callous. This are people whose votes Labour needs. Yet posters who purport to be Labour supporters cannot resist being patronising, rude and accusatory.

In real life, when was the last time you changed anyone's mind by calling them stupid?

Thank you so much for pointing out that right-wing commentators are right-wing. We are all too stupid to have realised that. We are also too stupid to have made a calculation that we would rather have support from the right-wing media than tumbleweed and abuse from left-wing. Thank you for highlighting the error of our ways.

NotHavingIt · 23/04/2023 17:35

TooBigForMyBoots · 23/04/2023 12:57

Many people take behaviour such as yours into account when deciding on their vote.

What do you mean?

Self righteous moralising turns a lot of people off.

NotHavingIt · 23/04/2023 17:41

Anklespraying · 23/04/2023 13:12

What do I mean?

Lavender's posts are full of insults and rage about people with a different political approach to life.

The Professor of Psychology lavender calls scum for example.

Since beginning to read this board and engaging with more left wing people I've realised this is the rule and not the exception.

A political party is more than just it's parliamentary representatives, it's all of you. And this is very frequently how you talk about and to people with a different opinion to you.

I don't read the Guardian so I have no idea what sort of social conditioning their readers go through so I just see and read the results on people's behaviour. It's very disproportionate and frequently unfounded.

Quite!

For people who consider themselves to be the most kind, the most tolerant, with the most humanity - many are actually the opposite in behaviour and attitude. I'm not just talking about here on MM but I've never seen so much personal abuse, negative generalisations, self-righteous moralising, name calling, vindictive behaviour as from these self proclaimed good people.

These days I judge people not so much on what they say they believe in, but on how they conduct themselves on a personal baisis. Their political party or badge matters not so much anymore.

HathorsFigTree · 23/04/2023 17:50

Yeah. I live in a labour council, and it does piss me off that there is a strong streak of social engineering through being petty punitive gits.

I haven’t ever voted Tory, I have voted Labour mostly, also spoilt my ballot a few times.

The sore-throated, red-faced shrieking by labour supporters at anyone who thinks there is a discussion to be had, I can clearly see how it translates into controlling and punitive measures in the real world.

I’m at saturation point and don’t feel like I can stomach much more.

I’ve really had enough.

Floisme · 23/04/2023 17:52

I've never seen so much personal abuse, negative generalisations, self-righteous moralising, name calling, vindictive behaviour as from these self proclaimed good people.
And, as I said near the start of this thread, the worst thing I've been called on here by Tory voters for not quite giving up on Labour is 'naive'.

HathorsFigTree · 23/04/2023 18:00

Are they calling everyone ‘scabs’? Is that what’s going on?

Lavenderlaze · 23/04/2023 18:11

You know what, I spend every day mopping up the damage done, fighting failing services for the people I work with and apologizing for systematic failure of the structures that just aren't there any more for vulnerable people.

They don't need fucking kind, they need therapy services, refuge places, housing, a benefits system that doesn't make you prove rape to be able to claim benefits for your children.
They need the universal services that got cut under the Tories so the only way you can access them is by referral. They need to be paid enough that they don't need to use fucking food banks.

They need an education system that meets their needs. One that is nurturing and child centered.

They need to know that the police will come if they are being beaten and abused.

They need their children to be able to access mental health support before they're trying to kill themselves.

That's what the Tories have done, so crack on pretending you give a shit about people because absolutely no-one who does would vote for them.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 23/04/2023 18:33

Lavenderlaze · 23/04/2023 18:11

You know what, I spend every day mopping up the damage done, fighting failing services for the people I work with and apologizing for systematic failure of the structures that just aren't there any more for vulnerable people.

They don't need fucking kind, they need therapy services, refuge places, housing, a benefits system that doesn't make you prove rape to be able to claim benefits for your children.
They need the universal services that got cut under the Tories so the only way you can access them is by referral. They need to be paid enough that they don't need to use fucking food banks.

They need an education system that meets their needs. One that is nurturing and child centered.

They need to know that the police will come if they are being beaten and abused.

They need their children to be able to access mental health support before they're trying to kill themselves.

That's what the Tories have done, so crack on pretending you give a shit about people because absolutely no-one who does would vote for them.

Yet apparently you don't care enough to stop alienating potential Labour voters.

Oldnproud · 23/04/2023 18:33

Lavenderlaze · 23/04/2023 18:11

You know what, I spend every day mopping up the damage done, fighting failing services for the people I work with and apologizing for systematic failure of the structures that just aren't there any more for vulnerable people.

They don't need fucking kind, they need therapy services, refuge places, housing, a benefits system that doesn't make you prove rape to be able to claim benefits for your children.
They need the universal services that got cut under the Tories so the only way you can access them is by referral. They need to be paid enough that they don't need to use fucking food banks.

They need an education system that meets their needs. One that is nurturing and child centered.

They need to know that the police will come if they are being beaten and abused.

They need their children to be able to access mental health support before they're trying to kill themselves.

That's what the Tories have done, so crack on pretending you give a shit about people because absolutely no-one who does would vote for them.

👏 👏 👏 👏 👏

HathorsFigTree · 23/04/2023 18:38

Lavenderlaze · 23/04/2023 18:11

You know what, I spend every day mopping up the damage done, fighting failing services for the people I work with and apologizing for systematic failure of the structures that just aren't there any more for vulnerable people.

They don't need fucking kind, they need therapy services, refuge places, housing, a benefits system that doesn't make you prove rape to be able to claim benefits for your children.
They need the universal services that got cut under the Tories so the only way you can access them is by referral. They need to be paid enough that they don't need to use fucking food banks.

They need an education system that meets their needs. One that is nurturing and child centered.

They need to know that the police will come if they are being beaten and abused.

They need their children to be able to access mental health support before they're trying to kill themselves.

That's what the Tories have done, so crack on pretending you give a shit about people because absolutely no-one who does would vote for them.

You had me onside, but you couldn’t help yourself with the last sentence. Ffs.

blackpearwhitelilies · 23/04/2023 18:38

Well said lavender and thank you for the work you do.

blackpearwhitelilies · 23/04/2023 18:46

It reads to me as if lavender's at the end of her tether. I don't blame her. It's been thirteen years and it's been getting worse.

DojaPhat · 23/04/2023 18:47

@Lavenderlaze I agree entirely with you and I too was completely dumbfounded by the idea that anyone would consider voting for the tories.

One thing, it helps to understand that a lot of women were always going to vote for the tories anyway but this 'single-issue' gives them welcome reprieve from having to pretend, and more so, the tories know that women have a vagina but it stops there. The material conditions which affect women won't change under the tories so their grasp of basic biology as the cornerstone of affecting change for women is utter bullshit and many women know this but the tories also represent something else for them which they feel they are losing, the preservation of 'traditional (British) values'. Feminism as it is on this forum on this board is unlike any sort of feminism I've ever encountered anywhere and I have learned so much because it really helps to understand the mentality of the sort of people who are a danger to you.

HathorsFigTree · 23/04/2023 18:50

I don’t feel like clapping for or thanking someone who closes off by saying I ‘pretend to give a shit about people’.

Seriously

But you lot crack on patting each other on the back.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 23/04/2023 18:54

DojaPhat · 23/04/2023 18:47

@Lavenderlaze I agree entirely with you and I too was completely dumbfounded by the idea that anyone would consider voting for the tories.

One thing, it helps to understand that a lot of women were always going to vote for the tories anyway but this 'single-issue' gives them welcome reprieve from having to pretend, and more so, the tories know that women have a vagina but it stops there. The material conditions which affect women won't change under the tories so their grasp of basic biology as the cornerstone of affecting change for women is utter bullshit and many women know this but the tories also represent something else for them which they feel they are losing, the preservation of 'traditional (British) values'. Feminism as it is on this forum on this board is unlike any sort of feminism I've ever encountered anywhere and I have learned so much because it really helps to understand the mentality of the sort of people who are a danger to you.

You do realise that Labour lost the last election? And that can only win the next one by getting people who voted Tory last time to vote Labour. Yet you and other numpties like you are hell-bent on alienating anyone who has ever voted Tory. You are doing the Tories' work for them.

Floisme · 23/04/2023 18:55

And still no-one seems prepared to come out and say they agree with Labour that some women have penises. Yet apparently it's women who call Labour out on their craven, reckless nonsense who represent the danger.

BluebellBlueballs · 23/04/2023 18:59

If I was being forced to vote I'd probably vote tory over Labour, but seeing as I'm not I'll sit the next GE out as I'm pretty much politically homeless.

NotHavingIt · 23/04/2023 19:01

Lavenderlaze · 23/04/2023 18:11

You know what, I spend every day mopping up the damage done, fighting failing services for the people I work with and apologizing for systematic failure of the structures that just aren't there any more for vulnerable people.

They don't need fucking kind, they need therapy services, refuge places, housing, a benefits system that doesn't make you prove rape to be able to claim benefits for your children.
They need the universal services that got cut under the Tories so the only way you can access them is by referral. They need to be paid enough that they don't need to use fucking food banks.

They need an education system that meets their needs. One that is nurturing and child centered.

They need to know that the police will come if they are being beaten and abused.

They need their children to be able to access mental health support before they're trying to kill themselves.

That's what the Tories have done, so crack on pretending you give a shit about people because absolutely no-one who does would vote for them.

I live in a Labour controlled city in which the Labour party is not only toxic and utterly corrupt, but also irretrievably incompetent. Yes, cuts have hit very hard, in fact my city has had the largest budget cuts of anywhere, and yet the Labour administration here just rubs salt into the wounds.

Neither Labour nor Tory administrations have made much positive difference here - in fact the city has ben as side-lined by Labour as it has by the Tories.

I have no ilusions left - and furthermore I simply cannot vote for an MP who refuses to meet with her constituents to discuss an isse that is of fundamental importance to them. We've been told " You are wasting your time".

The best thing for my city is that Labour loses lots of its councillors at the up-coming local elections.

DojaPhat · 23/04/2023 19:10

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow You can make the point you are making without using such language towards me. I have not said that Labour are doing any better, nor that they definitely have my vote. Keir's talents from where I'm standing seem to be testing out which direction the wind is blowing from the fence he's sitting on. The tories don't need 'people like' me to do their work for them, all they have to do is wheel out catch phrases about women and penises to have the adoration of many women who are not acting under any misguided belief that the tories have the interests of women at heart. I am not a numpty and will not engage further with you on this offensive remark you have made.

Lavenderlaze · 23/04/2023 19:11

To be absolutely clear, I am not here to convince people to vote labour. If the party can't do that then they need to sort their own house out because it should be an own goal.
I'm not a 'rah rah rah labour are great' poster. I thought I'd made that clear.

It's also not for me to convince people to vote with integrity and genuine social conscience.

I'll just carry on doing what I do and promoting social justice and equality in how I live my life and what I do in my community and society.

Stop tagging me because this is just pointless.

NotHavingIt · 23/04/2023 19:15

DojaPhat · 23/04/2023 18:47

@Lavenderlaze I agree entirely with you and I too was completely dumbfounded by the idea that anyone would consider voting for the tories.

One thing, it helps to understand that a lot of women were always going to vote for the tories anyway but this 'single-issue' gives them welcome reprieve from having to pretend, and more so, the tories know that women have a vagina but it stops there. The material conditions which affect women won't change under the tories so their grasp of basic biology as the cornerstone of affecting change for women is utter bullshit and many women know this but the tories also represent something else for them which they feel they are losing, the preservation of 'traditional (British) values'. Feminism as it is on this forum on this board is unlike any sort of feminism I've ever encountered anywhere and I have learned so much because it really helps to understand the mentality of the sort of people who are a danger to you.

Are you for real?

I set up my first women's group age 16; I became a vegetarian shortly afterwards; after starting A-Levels in Sociology, Politics and Psychology I abandoned them to live beside the road outside of an American nuclear base; then became part of a 1980s squatting movement in London; became involved with LGB rights; 'Stop the City' protests, and every other type of Leftist protest you can think of. I had my first child age 19, was a single parent, and have been poor and homeless.

I'm imagining I have experienced far more deprivation and adversity than yourself, though I may be wrong. My father lost his job in the early 1980's and we had to move to the other end of the country because there was no work we we lived - and I've lived with material insecurity as a very intimate reality for significan periods of my life.

I now live in an archetypal Left city in which the local CLPs are toxic and full of bullying and intimidation, and the city council is so corrupt and full of cronyism that the government has had to formally intervene. I used to be a Labour party member and even supported corny - but became seriously dissillusioned when he didn;t stand up to the bullying and intimidation even when it was in front of his face...

Please don't lecture and moralise to those who you have no idea of theirt back-story or experience. In fact your moralising tone and false supppositions just turn people off even more, and make you appear to be nothing short of bigoted.