Has anyone else been forced to become Conservative after all of this?

[ponderingsoul]

Probably the wrong wording, but I'm curious - after always considering myself fairly left wing/ liberal and generally voting Labour (or tactically Lib Dem when I was in the SW), I no longer really consider them a valid option for me because of their gender views/ inability to take a view.

Has this happened to anyone else? Never thought I'd be a Tory, but now feel like I have no choice as this issue is so important to me.

I stand corrected.

You actually referred to 'these people' (like me) who don't care about women and girls, extreme and dangerous and we validate scum.

So just to be clear... I'm not scum myself, I'm just extreme, dangerous, & validate scum.

Oh and I don't care about people at all.

Are you 15?

I genuinely don't understand why anyone would trust them. They don't have a great track record.

Who do you trust, and why? What makes them more trustworthy than the current government?

I’m a Labour voter and am tearing my hair out how shit Labour have been on this issue. There are plenty of threads about that.
As this thread is about feeling ‘forced to vote Tory’ and given we have had a Tory government for 13 years it seems fair to look at what is so great about this Tory government’s actual record on women’s rights. Thus far (in either good or bad faith) some people have miscredited positive things for women that the gov either haven’t done or weren’t wins for women.
I’m still looking for all the compelling reasons shown by the actual actions of this government for why anyone should vote for them on this issue and while NotHavingIt has rightly pointed out some Tory individuals saying the right things, all of whom I appreciate, yet I am still frustrated how little the Tories have actually done to help in 13 years. Yes good actions in Scotland over GRR but this was also a deeply unpopular issue with voters and the Tori’s needed a way to clip the SNPs wings and they were heading for a clash with EqA.

This is issue isn’t left v right issue which is why it has influenced both left and right politics. So I still maintain the Tories are not a GC party. None of them are. And the Tories have a shocking record in office for increased poverty for children and households in general which impacts disproportionately on women (who head up the overwhelming majority of single parent households) etc etc so I absolutely question their commitment to women and children, just to give one example.

I want to see cross party consensus on safeguarding and women’s rights being key issues and want to see ALL parties compete for women’s votes on that basis.

I don't think anyone believes the Tory's have been perfect on this.

But what's the comparator?

What the Labour Party would have done, or will do? Does anyone seriously think that if they were in all this time, the situation would be anything other than a total shit show?

How about the government in Scotland, or Wales? Or Canada, or New Zealand? In some of those cases, the legal changes have been made to basic legislation, people who speak out can be legally vulnerable. Certainly the press has to be careful.

People are making judgement about what has happened on this not by comparing to some ideal situation or party which doesn't exist, but by comparing to what would have happened had another party been in.

And it's up-ended people's sense of those parties because they expected that the left parties would protect women's rights, and the right parties wouldn't. They've had to ask themselves why that's happened, especially when it's not just the UK, but other places - it doesn't seem like a fluke.

Continually pointing out the Tories aren't perfect doesn't really speak to that reassessment.

I don't have a huge amount of trust for most of the current crop of politicians tbh but stop with the whataboutery.

The point of this thread is about voting conservative because of a single issue. Even if I thought that was a good idea in itself, they have proven themselves to be wholly untrustworthy and dishonest. So I am surprised that anyone would believe they will do anything they say they will.

It isn’t persuasive to say - ‘don’t vote for these people, they are untrustworthy’, if there is no one trustworthy to vote for.

If no one is trustworthy it isn’t a point worth making to support your argument, so why say it?

If a party is trustworthy, it is a point worth making, but you need to evidence it.

I agree. (Oh no, are we aligned!!)

The Tories have been crap on this issue and are not trustworthy and are dishonest.

But neither are Labour. Currently I think they are more dangerous.

Politics is a nasty game with not much choice for us mugs the voters.

I would choose Labour over Tory every time but I hold my nose doing so. I am under bI used to suggest tactically voting Lib Dem in certain areas but wouldn't again after the damage they did in coalition.

For me, voting Tory is abhorrent. I weep at the damage they have done each and every time they have been in power. Labour are problematic and I can't stand Starmer but things were better under the last labour government. We had better investment in education and health, we had policies that were improving life chances and bringing down child poverty.

I am not wholly aligned with any main party really, I have been left of labour since the 90s.

It's not really a distraction, it's illustrative of who you are and how you behave, and who labour voters are .

Many people take behaviour such as yours into account when deciding on their vote.

Many people take behaviour such as yours into account when deciding on their vote.

What do you mean?

It's a shame that people aren't taking into account the words and behaviour of people like Brendan O'Neill before throwing their lot in with them.

But crack on and see where it gets you. From what I see it's doing you all no favours outside of the echo chamber of Mumsnet and other forums.

It's clear to me what is meant. I assume the poster is referring to the dictatorial, authoritarian and intolerant tendencies of some on the left and an unwillingness to align with them.

Labour voter who has been spoiling my ballot paper but might possibly consider tactically voting conservative. I would find it difficult but alternatives like voting green have gone as well. Suspect I’ll be spoiling my ballot for the rest of my life

What do I mean?

Lavender's posts are full of insults and rage about people with a different political approach to life.

The Professor of Psychology lavender calls scum for example.

Since beginning to read this board and engaging with more left wing people I've realised this is the rule and not the exception.

A political party is more than just it's parliamentary representatives, it's all of you. And this is very frequently how you talk about and to people with a different opinion to you.

I don't read the Guardian so I have no idea what sort of social conditioning their readers go through so I just see and read the results on people's behaviour. It's very disproportionate and frequently unfounded.

What I don’t understand is why people think this is a single issue? As a woman this affects so much of public life - bathrooms and changing rooms, prisons, women’s sports, healthcare, work opportunities, social activities, child safeguarding, dating apps….

And to everyone suggesting that it is stupid to vote on a “single issue” no it isn’t! People can vote for whoever is on their ballot paper and for whatever reasons they want to, it’s called living in a democracy.

I would never vote Conservative regardless of other parties' manifestos/policies. I would rather spoil my ballot paper.

Every single person who votes SNP is voting on a single issue. Every policy the SNP has is just a hang on to its sole raison d'être.

I'm conscious that this thread is about voting Tory and that I keep coming back to Labour. I apologise. But I've been following the thread from the start and what I find striking is that I don't think I've seen a single person say they think Sunak has got this particular issue wrong.

Not even posters who detest the Tories are claiming that some women really do have penises. Judging by this thread, the best arguments that can be made for Labour / the left on this question are that the Tories can't be trusted, that this is a distraction from the 'real' issues. And scum. (Isn't Peterson Canadian by the way?)

Whether it drives people to the Tories or to spoil ballots, this issue by the looks of it, is losing Labour votes, including mine if they don't sort it out. Are Labour really so arrogant that they will jeopardise the chance of a decent majority rather than admit they've got this wrong? If that proves to be the case then what utter fools they are. They really should be renamed the Stupid Party

The point of this thread is about voting conservative because of a single issue. Even if I thought that was a good idea in itself, they have proven themselves to be wholly untrustworthy and dishonest. So I am surprised that anyone would believe they will do anything they say they will.

Give me an alternative. Don't tell me my priorities are wrong because they don't align with yours, I decide my priorities, not you or the censorious, authoritarian left wing.

Labour labelled WPUK a "transphobic hate group". WPUK is a women's rights group comprised of feminists and trade unionists.

Labour called for any member of the party who would not toe the line on self ID to be expelled.

Lisa Nandy thinks child sex offenders should be housed in women's prisons and 13 year olds should be able to change their "legal gender".

David Lammy thinks women are "rights hoarding dinosaur's.

Stalls Creasy thinks women have penises.

Labour Women's Declaration were denied a stand at the Labour Party Conference, the stand in question remained empty.

Keir Starmer thinks 99% of women don't have a penis but it's wrong to say only women have a cervix. He has said that self ID is no longer a priority but has not taken it off the table.

Rosie Duffield was unable to attend the party conference because of credible threats to her safety and not one senior member of the party has defended her.

I could give you a similar list for the LibDems and the Greens.

The Conservatives have taken self ID off the table. Do I trust them? Not really, I don't think they care about this issue, I think they thought it would be a really simple way to be seen as more progressive without actually having to do very much. Every other party seems intent of forging ahead, I will not vote for that.

The contest in my constituency will be between the LibDems and Conservatives, the LibDems do not want my vote so I won't burden them with it.

Who would you vote for if you were me? Remember you don't have the right to decide my priorities and this is my priority. It's not just about single sex spaces, it's also about child safeguarding, fairness in sport, democracy and free speech. It's an issue which will affect all women, particularly the most vulnerable.

I have previously spoiled my ballot with, woman: adult human female stickers. I wrote to the Labour candidate before the last GE to ask about her position on this and was ignored.

It's easy to judge if you have only recently become concerned about this issue but for those of us who have been following developments for several years we realise we're going to have to make tough choices to send a very clear message that we will no longer be ignored. Another political party could easily win my vote, being a single issue voter means that they only have to change their stance on this one thing.

DemiColon I appreciate your question and it is making me think. I’m not looking for perfection I promise, no government can be perfect.

But I don't think consulting on bringing forward self ID for the whole UK (Theresa May) or a government consulting on conversion therapy with the meaning that professional non-affirmation of gender identity becomes a legal offence (Boris Johnson) is a minor flaw. It doesn’t speak of a party that really supports women’s rights.

As to whatLabour would have done- I don’t know if they would have done much different than the Tories have done (and I think they also would have also realised self ID is a disaster and also backed off from it..) BUT I do think that Labour’s other policies in combination on the NHS, education and public services etc would have supported women and children much better.

NO.

They aren’t exactly pushing a feminist agenda.

I would have been a Blairite apart from the difficulty of not having lived since the late 1980s in a constituency Labour have a hope in hell of winning. I have voted Labour in Holyrood list selection. But as I'm "scum" they can do without my support now.

I expect Tony Blair is probably scum now.

A single issue that potentially affects any aspect of their life for half the worlds population should make it a massive un-ignorable issue

Women are raging at the government and it's no wonder, they've set women's rights back and destroyed the country. We should not have to Be Kind about that or silence ourselves because Tory supporters take criticism of the government personally.

Destroyed the country!

I just had a look out of the window and it's looking fine!

Vote labour if you like to listen to incoherent rage!