Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Judgement in Mermaids v Charity Commission tribunal expected in days

798 replies

RoyalCorgi · 18/04/2023 11:07

This is the case where Mermaids challenged the Charity Commission's decision to give charitable status to the LGBA.

Don't have any more detail at the moment, but thought you'd all be interested. It's been a four month wait already.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
47
DerekFaker · 06/07/2023 10:25

The LGBA's website appears to have crashed, but here is a screenshot of their statement:

Judgement in Mermaids v Charity Commission tribunal expected in days
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 06/07/2023 10:26

From the Mermaids statement:

Because they found against us on standing, the Tribunal didn’t have to rule on the main issue in the appeal – namely whether or not LGBA should have been registered as a charity to begin with.
But the two judges indicated that they had given that question careful consideration and had been split on the answer. That is, one of the judges agreed with us that LGBA should not have been registered as a charity, and one disagreed.

We will have to await the publication of the judgement (assuming they are published in these cases?). But I would find it surprising for judges to give an opinion on something that they have explicitly said they have not considered for this judgement - whether LGBA should have been registered. I suspect we will find that they have actually said something much more narrow than Mermaids are implying.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 06/07/2023 10:27

Wooohoooo 💃🏻💃🏻🥂🥂 in very boring meeting but this is brilliant news

Chersfrozenface · 06/07/2023 10:27

"We are glad to have been able to shine a light on the harmful nature of Mermaids' activities and the need for ongoing scrutiny"

Fixed that for them.

Sunlight.

PronounssheRa · 06/07/2023 10:27

SelfPortraitWithHagstone · 06/07/2023 10:24

"We are glad to have been able to shine a light on the harmful nature of LGBA’s activities and the need for ongoing scrutiny"

Ah ha ha ha, ha ha ha [dissolves into helpless laughter].

Correct me if I'm wrong, buts it's mermaids not LGBA who are currently being investigated by the charity commission

SpottyBumPony · 06/07/2023 10:27

Wow, a whole 39 likes!

aseriesofstillimages · 06/07/2023 10:28

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 06/07/2023 10:26

From the Mermaids statement:

Because they found against us on standing, the Tribunal didn’t have to rule on the main issue in the appeal – namely whether or not LGBA should have been registered as a charity to begin with.
But the two judges indicated that they had given that question careful consideration and had been split on the answer. That is, one of the judges agreed with us that LGBA should not have been registered as a charity, and one disagreed.

We will have to await the publication of the judgement (assuming they are published in these cases?). But I would find it surprising for judges to give an opinion on something that they have explicitly said they have not considered for this judgement - whether LGBA should have been registered. I suspect we will find that they have actually said something much more narrow than Mermaids are implying.

I will also be very interested to read it - if one if the judges really expressed the view that they would have found in favour of Mermaids on the substantive question, that’s quite significant.

ickky · 06/07/2023 10:28

Here is a screen shot. open in a new page and zoom to read if it is too small.

Judgement in Mermaids v Charity Commission tribunal expected in days
Kucinghitam · 06/07/2023 10:28

That Mermaids statement is quite something. Reads a bit like "If my car was made of cabbage, it would be a saxophone."

I don't know why Mermaids didn't just identify as winning, isn't that their central dogma?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/07/2023 10:29

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 06/07/2023 10:26

From the Mermaids statement:

Because they found against us on standing, the Tribunal didn’t have to rule on the main issue in the appeal – namely whether or not LGBA should have been registered as a charity to begin with.
But the two judges indicated that they had given that question careful consideration and had been split on the answer. That is, one of the judges agreed with us that LGBA should not have been registered as a charity, and one disagreed.

We will have to await the publication of the judgement (assuming they are published in these cases?). But I would find it surprising for judges to give an opinion on something that they have explicitly said they have not considered for this judgement - whether LGBA should have been registered. I suspect we will find that they have actually said something much more narrow than Mermaids are implying.

Didn't maya's ex employers get into trouble for claiming that the judge said something he hadn't? And it cost them a lot of ££ for doing so?

ickky · 06/07/2023 10:29

Here is a copy and paste
General Regulatory Chamber of the First-Tier Tribunal rules thatMermaids had no legal right to challenge LGB Alliance’s charitable status
Mermaids and the Good Law Project, forced the UK’s only charity that stands exclusively for the rights of LGB people to defend its charitable status in a six-day tribunal hearing. Today’s judgment confirmed, as LGB Alliance had argued from the start, that Mermaids had no legal basis on which to bring this challenge.
Responding to this judgment, Kate Barker, Chief Executive Officer of LGB Alliance, said:
“We are absolutely delighted with this judgment and with the news that we will retain our charitable status.
Two years ago, we were clear that Mermaids had no standing to challenge our registration and today the tribunal has confirmed that we were correct.
Whilst this is a battle we did not seek, neither would we flee from it. But the cost to us and to our supporters has been huge.
Our legal fees amount to more than £250K and that money has come from small supporter donations. So, whilst our win is great news for lesbians, gay men and bisexuals, we can’t help but reflect on the fact that a sum like that would have been better spent on projects such as our Helpline for young people, our LGB Archive and our Friends’ Network.
This case did, however, provide a welcome opportunity to talk about our work in a public forum and we hope that the era of ‘no debate’ is over.”
The Tribunal said, “the fundamental rationale of the democratic process upon which our society is founded is that when competing views, opinions and policies are publicly debated and exposed to public scrutiny, the good will over time drive out the bad and the true will prevail over the false. Only when differing views are expressed, contradicted, answered and debated will the legislature be able to obtain the fullest picture of the views held by those they represent.”
Kate Barker added,
“In a free society we must be free to disagree and we hold fiercely to that view.
We are relieved that this long, and sometimes bruising, process has reached an end and we thank all of our wonderful supporters and our brilliant legal team.
As to our detractors…They tried to run us ragged. They failed. We’re happy that now the work goes on.”

Our legal team
LGB Alliance’s solicitor is Peter Daly, a partner at Doyle Clayton. He said:
“We are pleased that the Tribunal has agreed with our primary case that Mermaids never had standing to bring this Appeal in the first place. Our clients have been put through two years of stressful and unnecessary litigation. We look forward to them now being able to put this behind them and turn their full attentions towards their important charitable work in support of lesbian, gay and bisexual people.”

EmotionalSupportHyena · 06/07/2023 10:29

QuickWash · 06/07/2023 10:23

Mermaids seem to be saying that they would have won. If the decision had been different. And that casts doubt in LGBA. And actually the judges agreed with them. But they lost. But they would have won really, in different circs.

FFS.

😂😂😂😂

Hard not to find a little schadenfreudic joy in knowing that this shitshow of a legal challenge discredited their CEO and Chair and they are more wounded by it than the LGBA are.

lifeissweet · 06/07/2023 10:30

This is a reach, I know, given Mermaids are scrupulously honest and transparent at all times.

But could they, perhaps, be spinning this like a yo-yo in order to make up look like down?

Just a hunch...

SelfPortraitWithHagstone · 06/07/2023 10:31

Oh, lifeissweet, you cynic! 😉

PorcelinaV · 06/07/2023 10:31

Thank you.

WallaceinAnderland · 06/07/2023 10:32

Mermaids are salty 😂

meowgender · 06/07/2023 10:33

Interesting detail in Mermaids' statement about the two judges being split on whether LGB Alliance should have their charity status revoked. If true, I wonder if the tribunal will release more information about this, the key points of why each judge held differing opinions?

Datun · 06/07/2023 10:33

If we don’t meet the test for standing in this case, it is hard to imagine that anyone could have done. In effect, that means that the decision to register LGBA as a charity cannot be challenged by a third party, even though the judgment confirms that there are serious doubts over whether LGBA should have charitable status.

Do they seriously think that anyone reading wouldn't get the overwhelming impression that they are a bunch of duplicitous, manipulative and deceitful charlatans.

And who, incidentally, are the charity actually being investigated by the charity commission!

What a load of tosh.

Boiledbeetle · 06/07/2023 10:33

Pink news via Dennis' Twitter

https://twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1676885370405896192?s=19

Judgement in Mermaids v Charity Commission tribunal expected in days
RedToothBrush · 06/07/2023 10:33

DH asks that if the LGBA charity status is legal and fine, does this mean that you can't call it a hate group anymore and that in doing so you would be being homophobic? And further to that anyone who harasses a member purely for being a member of the LGBA could consistute a hate crime in its own right?

The point being that Mermaids action has the unintended legal effect of legitimising the LGBA.

Also, can we ask if taking the LGBA to court to remove their charitable status is in keeping with Mermaids Charitable status or is it a questionable use of funds. Especially if they end up paying costs...

ResisterRex · 06/07/2023 10:34

WallaceinAnderland · 06/07/2023 10:32

Mermaids are salty 😂

Mmmm

"What does this mean for Mermaids?

This decision has no reflection on Mermaids..."

They're permanently located in the Upside Down, it seems

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 06/07/2023 10:34

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2023 10:33

DH asks that if the LGBA charity status is legal and fine, does this mean that you can't call it a hate group anymore and that in doing so you would be being homophobic? And further to that anyone who harasses a member purely for being a member of the LGBA could consistute a hate crime in its own right?

The point being that Mermaids action has the unintended legal effect of legitimising the LGBA.

Also, can we ask if taking the LGBA to court to remove their charitable status is in keeping with Mermaids Charitable status or is it a questionable use of funds. Especially if they end up paying costs...

Not the case, I fear, because the judges have only ruled on standing, and not on the legitimacy of otherwise of LGBA.

Boiledbeetle · 06/07/2023 10:36

ickky · 06/07/2023 10:29

Here is a copy and paste
General Regulatory Chamber of the First-Tier Tribunal rules thatMermaids had no legal right to challenge LGB Alliance’s charitable status
Mermaids and the Good Law Project, forced the UK’s only charity that stands exclusively for the rights of LGB people to defend its charitable status in a six-day tribunal hearing. Today’s judgment confirmed, as LGB Alliance had argued from the start, that Mermaids had no legal basis on which to bring this challenge.
Responding to this judgment, Kate Barker, Chief Executive Officer of LGB Alliance, said:
“We are absolutely delighted with this judgment and with the news that we will retain our charitable status.
Two years ago, we were clear that Mermaids had no standing to challenge our registration and today the tribunal has confirmed that we were correct.
Whilst this is a battle we did not seek, neither would we flee from it. But the cost to us and to our supporters has been huge.
Our legal fees amount to more than £250K and that money has come from small supporter donations. So, whilst our win is great news for lesbians, gay men and bisexuals, we can’t help but reflect on the fact that a sum like that would have been better spent on projects such as our Helpline for young people, our LGB Archive and our Friends’ Network.
This case did, however, provide a welcome opportunity to talk about our work in a public forum and we hope that the era of ‘no debate’ is over.”
The Tribunal said, “the fundamental rationale of the democratic process upon which our society is founded is that when competing views, opinions and policies are publicly debated and exposed to public scrutiny, the good will over time drive out the bad and the true will prevail over the false. Only when differing views are expressed, contradicted, answered and debated will the legislature be able to obtain the fullest picture of the views held by those they represent.”
Kate Barker added,
“In a free society we must be free to disagree and we hold fiercely to that view.
We are relieved that this long, and sometimes bruising, process has reached an end and we thank all of our wonderful supporters and our brilliant legal team.
As to our detractors…They tried to run us ragged. They failed. We’re happy that now the work goes on.”

Our legal team
LGB Alliance’s solicitor is Peter Daly, a partner at Doyle Clayton. He said:
“We are pleased that the Tribunal has agreed with our primary case that Mermaids never had standing to bring this Appeal in the first place. Our clients have been put through two years of stressful and unnecessary litigation. We look forward to them now being able to put this behind them and turn their full attentions towards their important charitable work in support of lesbian, gay and bisexual people.”

Thank you

Ameanstreakamilewide · 06/07/2023 10:36

QuickWash · 06/07/2023 10:23

Mermaids seem to be saying that they would have won. If the decision had been different. And that casts doubt in LGBA. And actually the judges agreed with them. But they lost. But they would have won really, in different circs.

FFS.

That's ludicrous! 😂

How do they say these things out loud without blushing??

They seem to exist in their weird, unhealthy and incestuous bubbles, where no one ever contradicts them, or disagrees with them.
Which, I'm sure, is bliss, for them.

But, as soon as someone says something they don't want to hear, they behave like this. And need their Mum, their support dog and someone to turn the pages of a court bundle.

I know that was Stonewall, but (to me), they're 2 halves of the same rancid coin.

Swipe left for the next trending thread