A Californian mother talks about dealing with a daughter caught up in the ideology

[Coyoacan]

What do you mean by "not believe that trans identities are valid" Strangelove? I'm speaking about children denying the reality of their sexed bodies and thinking that changing them will resolve their pubertal angst.

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Can you provide us with a source that you consider impartial? That has never falsely presented any data? Whose reason for existing is not to support a particular position?

Yes. I am a trans man

So not male then.

'Gender affirming care'?
What is gender other than sex role stereotypes to mimic?
There is no lady brain or man brain to affirm and dysphoria is a mental illness that a better 'cure' for is getting to the bottom of whatever trauma caused the dysphoria in the first place.
Why is this mental illness treated differently to others?
Why are they treating the symptoms and not the cause?

Encouraging children who for whatever reason are experiencing mental distress and dysphoria, to continue to dissociate from their sexed body is not 'care' or healthy. It's abuse.

You think your children should be able to consent to sex?

If a minor becomes pregnant they should be able to determine the outcome.

Can you provide us with a source that you consider impartial? That has never falsely presented any data? Whose reason for existing is not to support a particular position?

No source is entirely impartialwe all come with some baggage in evaluating the world and everyone errsbut surely you would not suggest that all sources are equally valid.

Fortunately we have a system of safeguarding children. Some children will be pregnant through rape, some will be very young, some may have learning difficulties / special needs. Many of these children will be unable to make that decision. For other children it's a decision they are too young to make.
The priority should be safeguarding children from harm - not making ideological statements that while applicable to most adults may well not apply to many children.

So your contention is that either I am a pathological liar or...experiencing a multi-decade psychotic break?

The priority should be safeguarding children from harm - not making ideological statements that while applicable to most adults may well not apply to many children.

Yes. Informed consent is a concept that acknowledges the need for the decision-making process to be consultative and a need for nuance in navigating this process. Would you say that parents? the state? should be able to force a teenager who is pregnant to have an abortion against their will? or force them to carry a pregnancy to term against their will? These are thorny issues that are often dealt with poorly with blanket prohibitions, whether relative to pregnancy or gender affirming care.

Should we allow an 11 year old to ‘consent’ to sex or is blanket prohibition a good thing?

Thank you for posting that. Her example is wonderful, and it is helpful to hear of some of those ways she helped her daughter, for example listening to podcasts about cults or detransitioner Helena with her on long journeys, and standing up for her own belief that the ideas are false.

Her idea that everyone who is against this should band together whatever their ‘group’ in order to create a force, through numbers, to be reckoned with is important too.

Her summary of what to look out for the anime, cosplay, porn, telephones was memorable. You realise this is all becoming predictable, don’t give the benefit of the doubt, don’t wait to watch the ideology it take hold.

@DrStrangelove

I have known parents whose children went to therapy and did not transition and others who did and some whose children started transition and changed their mind

I was wondering how you know so many?
How many of each kind did you know altogether? Are you in a particular job which means you are particularly likely to come across body dysphoric children?

Transition has different meanings for different people. The vast majority of children who receive gender affirming care that is social transitionno medical or surgical intervention or if they receive it is much later. For many people that is transition and passing is not always the end goal. And many children who receive gender affirming care are non-binary and not seeking a specific medical or surgical treatment. Medical interventions are rare and surgeries incredibly rareI defer to the Endocrine Society, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Psychological Association on these points as I am not a medical doctor. But, generally, the experience of being supported in one's self through therapy and family and social recognition is a big deal.

As for the rates among adults of medical or surgical interventions the data are poor but it is also the case that there are not enough providers who are proficient in providing care and there are loads of economic barriers to accessing that care which is generally expensive, especially for a population that is more likely to live in poverty. Data from 2022 showed that around 40% of adults who wanted hormonal treatment had access to it. Surgery is far more inaccessible.

I apologize for repeatedly adding strikethroughs to my text. I need to break my habit of using em dashes.

I was wondering how you know so many?
How many of each kind did you know altogether? Are you in a particular job which means you are particularly likely to come across body dysphoric children?

I am trans and so I am part of a community. We need support from one another too. Especially right now.

As for the rates among adults of medical or surgical interventions the data are poor but it is also the case that there are not enough providers who are proficient in providing care and there are loads of economic barriers to accessing that care which is generally expensive, especially for a population that is more likely to live in poverty

You do realise that this is a UK-based site and the data from the UK, where healthcare is free at point of delivery, is that at most 15% of transgender adults have had surgery and/or taken hormones.

Non binary is entirely made up, so why does it need to be 'affirmed'?
What about all the other hundreds of genders? Why is non binary more 'valid' than catgender or astrogender?

Yes their are a tiny % of what most understand as transexuals. Individuals with extreme dysphoria who need to take drugs or surgery to mimic the opposite sex. But that is a tiny % of the current 'trans' umbrella.

Barriers to care exist in the UK as well including a shortage of providers, long wait times, and access to information. The GIDS is currently seeing patients referred to them in 2018. There's loads of reporting on the average wait for care--and that's just initial intake.

The costs of surgical intervention include things like time off from work and the need for caregiving.

DocStrangelove I noticed you forgot to answer my question?

There isn't enough funding to provide necessary mental health care to teens in general, without the 'gender affirming care' you think is so vital.

Wait times for EVERYTHING are long because the NHS is fucked.

Why should people with perfectly healthy bodies be prioritised for things like cosmetic surgery?

Didn't see it. A lot of replies. No I do not believe an 11 year can consent to sex. Would you, however, criminalize two 11 year olds you found out had sex? The law can be a blunt instrument when wielded improperly.

Would you ban a child from accessing puberty blockers for precocious puberty? Or would you suggest that is a decision best made between the patient, their parent, and medical professionals?

I have made no claims about prioritization. I was simply responding to the question about why so few trans individuals have accessed medical transition specifically in the UK.

Would you ban a child from accessing puberty blockers for precocious puberty? Or would you suggest that is a decision best made between the patient, their parent, and medical professionals?

Central precocious puberty (CPP) is what puberty blockers are actually licensed for for children. And the aim is for children to actually go through puberty. So puberty blockers are actually stopped in a reasonable time frame.

You can’t compare medical treatments if the goals are so diametrically opposed.

Puberty blockers for CPP: allow normal puberty.
Puberty blockers for GD: to completely prevent normal puberty.

Mastectomy for breast cancer: to remove diseased breast tissue.
Mastectomy for GD: to remove completely healthy breast tissue.

Testosterone for testosterone deficiency: to raise abnormally low testosterone levels into the normal range.
Testosterone for GD: to raise normal testosterone levels massively above the normal range.

Medicine: to help with disease and wellbeing.
Gender Medicine: to cause disease despite no evidence of benefit to wellbeing.

You mean very young people were denied treatments that may well permanently damage them, disable them and require unnecessary medical care for the rest of their lives? How awful.

I was listening to a podcast the other day. They said that the very act of going through puberty allowed many young people to come to terms with their changing bodies and any body dysphoria resolved itself. Makes sense to me and research seems to back that up. Puberty blockers prevent that from happening.

Or would you suggest that is a decision best made between the patient, their parent, and medical professionals?

After the fiasco of the Tavistock and its ilk around the world, medical professionals have fallen into disrepute. The maxim of "First, do no harm" was discarded with such gay abandon.