A Californian mother talks about dealing with a daughter caught up in the ideology

[Coyoacan]

Yes. When I see ‘conversion’ therapy posted in this context, my immediate thought is exactly that. Therapists that are affirming only.

It is always interesting to see what others consider ‘conversion’ therapy. Particularly when it relates to children and adolescents.

Dr Strangelove - an ex Nazi character. A well chosen user name for those intent on silencing legitimate views.

Do you know what? It really pisses me off that the left has lost it's mind so much with child safeguarding that posters like 'DrStrangelove' can come on here and say 'but you align with anti abortionists'.

These are fucking children who are abusing their bodies and sometimes rendering themselves infertile because something has convinced them they have somehow been born wrong.

Who ever in the 'left' thinks that they are on the right side of history and that maiming children is a good idea can fucking do one.

I'm anti abortion as are most who disagree with this shit are. My daughter is autistic. She needs protecting from the left who would convince her because she is not like other (tik tok) girls, she must be a fucking boy.

And yes I am angry.

Really fucking angry. Not wanting children harmed is not aligning with anti abortionists. FFS.

Sorry I'm so angry I've typed an obvious typo

I"M NOT ANTI ABORTION!

I am surprised these days that any person can talk about children and adolescents being ‘prevented’ from transitioning when we know so much about desistance, the lessons from detransitioners and from clinicians who are sounding the alarms about affirming only treatments. And how even ‘social transition’ is not a neutral action and should be very very carefully navigated.

But hey… let’s try to point out a mother who wanted to ensure that a child received unbiased care is a problem ‘activist’.

Looking back as a child I was definitely a tom boy and if someone had told me I could be a boy I would have been delighted and done it in an instant. By the time I was a teenager I had found myself and was definitely a girl. It would have ruined my life if I had been suggested/or allowed to attempt to change my gender as a child.

Dr Strangelove - an ex Nazi character. A well chosen user name for those intent on silencing legitimate views.

Can you explain to me how presenting an opposing view is silencing legitimate views? It seems you are the one who believes some people should not post.

Gender-affirming therapy does not have a pre-determined end. Gender-affirming therapists support their clients no matter the path they choose. I have known parents whose children went to therapy and did not transition and others who did and some whose children started transition and changed their mind. The purpose of therapy was to avoid harm--giving the patient a judgment free space in which to explore these issues. I could have avoided a lot of pain and wasted a lot less time had I been given that opportunity when I was younger.

I did not say that anyone aligns with anti-abortionists other than the Heritage Foundation. What I said was that The Daily Signal is produced by an anti-abortion/anti-feminist organization that has utilized their platform to present misinformation.

I could have avoided a lot of pain and wasted a lot less time had I been given that opportunity when I was younger.

Are you male?

Gender-affirming therapy does not have a pre-determined end

What do you think ‘gender affirming’ is then?

Gender affirming care is affirming to the patient as they explore possibilities. It does not presuppose any particular end for that particular patient. As I said I have known people who have had come to very different conclusions through gender affirming care, many still exploring.

Yes. I am a trans man.

@DocStrangelove I have looked at plenty of examples of gender affirming care. In the vast majority of cases, the outcome had already been implicitly decided by the patient and the therapist. Rendering the exploration (if indeed there was any) pointless.

Hannah Barnes' book Time to Think is a very well balanced exploration of this. She also gives space for people who have successfully transitioned, and who found benefit from doing so, to speak. If that describes you, I am genuinely happy for you and I should imagine there will be many on this board who feel the same.

However, from an overwhelmingly growing body of evidence (including testimony from many destransitioners), transitioning children is increasingly being seen as the wrong pathway.

Every adult who has successfully transitioned was once a child, of course. However, this doesn't mean that every child who believes they should do so should be affirmed. Gender affirming care assumes that they should be - by this definition it becomes "conversion therapy" (I'm not saying it is, just throwing in the logical devil's advocate conclusion).

I listened to the whole video and found it chilling that this intelligent Democrat mum has had to fight the weight of the state machinery . I think the UK would have followed where California leads but I think the tide has turned here. (I hope so) She spoke eloquently about the need for parents to monitor the way in which schools accept and pass on this ideology without stopping to challenge it in any way at all. It was a fascinating listen and the big piece of advice I took from it was if you are concerned, take away your child’s phone. Do it. That rings true to me.

I finished Time to Think last night BonfireLady. It was distressing to read the extent that those in charge at GIDs tried to subvert safeguarding. Thank heavens for Sonia Appleby and her quiet determination to ensure safeguarding children couldn't be swept under the carpet.
Knowing that Gendered Intelligence and Mermaids were key in pressuring for immediate affirmation for such vulnerable and unwell children was enraging.

Good for this mother in the video for protecting her child. Far too many adults are ducking these tough decisions and leaving children in the hands of these toxic groups.

The source is the mother telling the story. The media is the platform she's broadcasting on.
You researched this mom? Why?
Or are you saying you've researched her platform and it is rubbish so automatically there's doubt on her story?

Is this like those character destruction trials in which women were not believed if one could prove she'd ever done at least one unpalatable thing?

I have looked at plenty of examples of gender affirming care. In the vast majority of cases, the outcome had already been implicitly decided by the patient and the therapist. Rendering the exploration (if indeed there was any) pointless.

I too have read a great deal on it, know children and adults who have received it, and have experienced it first hand. This is not what I have seen in my experience or what I have read in the medical literature. We will have to agree to disagree.

And here is a moment of impasse:

If that describes you, I am genuinely happy for you and I should imagine there will be many on this board who feel the same.

If being trans is fine and if one believes trans people when they speak about themselves then someone who wishes to transition but cannot is as much of a tragedy as someone who detransitioned because they were wrong or misled. I know many here would not agree any part of that sentence.

"If being trans is fine and if one believes trans people when they speak about themselves then someone who wishes to transition but cannot is as much of a tragedy as someone who detransitioned because they were wrong or misled. I know many here would not agree any part of that sentence".

The interview is with the mother of a child. It is a common feature on here that discussions about children are often diverted to discuss adults, often using emotive arguments.
Children should not be making reality denying, life decisions about transitioning and sacrificing their future fertility, physical and mental health before they are mature enough to do so. That is what this parent is discussing. What she says resonates with many of us, as women, parents and responsible human beings.

Or are you saying you've researched her platform and it is rubbish so automatically there's doubt on her story?

Is this like those character destruction trials in which women were not believed if one could prove she'd ever done at least one unpalatable thing?

If information appeared on a site that was the arm of a political organization and its reason for existing was posting material to support the political positions of that organization, often by presenting misleading, partial, or false information then yes I am skeptical. They also have a very sympathetic interview with Kyle Rittenhouse and interviews with people claiming to have worked in abortion clinics with horror stories. I also do not take RT at face value, for example.

The interview is with the mother of a child. It is a common feature on here that discussions about children are often diverted to discuss adults, often using emotive arguments.

The child does not speak here so we cannot know their perspective on this.

Children should not be making reality denying, life decisions about transitioning and sacrificing their future fertility, physical and mental health before they are mature enough to do so. That is what this parent is discussing. What she says resonates with many of us, as women, parents and responsible human beings.

Pregnancy/abortion are also life changing decisions that I believe minors should be allowed to make relative to their own bodies with informed consent even when that decision is at odds with the views of their parents. But ultimately the phrases "reality denying" is the key here--you do not believe trans identities are valid.

The problem is that 'left wing' platforms are silencing parents, detransitioners and GC women on this so if you want to hear these perspectives you have to listen to media on the right. KJK has talked about this -she's gone on right wing media because they are the only ones who'll have her on. That in itself is highly disturbing.

someone who wishes to transition but cannot is as much of a tragedy as someone who detransitioned because they were wrong or misled.

We wouldn’t agree because they are not equal when medical and surgical treatment is involved. A child (as we are talking about children here, not adults with mature brains and knowledge of orgasms and opportunity for storing gametes) who transitions and then later has detransitioned has had body parts mutilated, brain development halted, bone density drastically reduced, ability to organism removed, fertility destroyed, voice changed and will be a lifelong medical patient with a possibly shortened life as well as likely ongoing mental health difficulties which may well have predated their transition but were not appropriately treated. A child who is prevented from transitioning and provided with appropriate psychological support remains physically healthy and has mental health treated. The vast majority of these children then go on to be reconciled with their sex. Those who don’t will benefit from a fully matured brain with which to make those decisions, appropriate bone density, knowledge of orgasms and the possibility of retaining them, as well as the opportunity to store gametes.

Why, if being prevented from medical and surgical transition was such a bad thing for children, do the majority of adult male transition SRS have neither medical or surgical treatment?

*transitioners

Pregnancy/abortion are also life changing decisions that I believe minors should be allowed to make relative to their own bodies with informed consent even when that decision is at odds with the views of their parents.

You think your children should be able to consent to sex? 😮

Why, if being prevented from medical and surgical transition was such a bad thing for children, do the majority of adult male transition SRS have neither medical or surgical treatment? Good question.

Also, puberty blockers (which are seen as the first step) can stunt girls growth (making it less likely they'll pass as a transman) and prevent sufficient penis tissue from growing in boys to be able to form a neovagina, as outlined in terrible detail by both Susie Green on video and in I am Jazz. Even if you presuppose the end goal is transition I don't think, if there was free debate, there would be an accepted view that stopping puberty is necessarily a good idea.