Teenage DD, general shit I'm absolutely fed upwith Re being a man

[LadyHag]

Yep, as title shows, it's one of these situations and tonight I am sat in bed having a massive cry as I am fucking well fed up with my naive, stupid, dd and if that sounds awful. I don't mean to be but I m just fed up.

DD in gcse year, over years at high school quiet, very few friends, anxious, hardly any self confidence, self harm issues a coupke of years ago. Hates anything where their achievements will be measured, if that makes sense, or in comparison to. Peers (had to drop a course at school as went into a huge panidlc their work would be shown with other pupils so hers would look rubbish, so she thought) yet won't push herself, prefers to withdraw and not challenge herself - very much a head in sand person

Anyway, during the general shit storm of past coupke of years we found dd had been in hidden chat rooms, discord et,c and chatting to (apparently-who can tell online e?) teenagers all bigging up saying they were trans, wearing maid outfits, nothing about dysmorphia etc that would imply a serious identity crisis, but obvious teenage attention etc.

DD loves this - here is a club anyone can join and there us no test you have to pass, no minimum criteria, you say you are trans and that's it, you're in with the cool kids. Dd is so naive she will not question anything she is told. We removed her phone for a long time while trying to. Get support for her and was told she needs to have it back, even though we were concerned she was abandoning the very few real. Life friendships at school to. Invest on online e groups that seemed to. Thrive by love bombing each other.

So, dd comes out with all the usual trans stuff, she told and event guest she was a man when asked about herself and was delighted that the organisers apologised to ger for not making a safe space, she loved the attention. She admits she likes to shock people to get attention but then worries about peopke looking at her, says she is a man, she is a gay male, some days she is 'T' and some days she is not, had been wearing a binder but didn't understand how it can damage breasts and on the says she is not 'T' the breasts over time won't just bounce back up. She seemed genuinely suprised by this.

We have had goth phases, trans phases, retro clothing phases, wanting items like the tiktok strawberry dress because other people have it

Now she has tonight told me for prom she needs a man's suit to look more masculine on photos.

I am absolutely fed up. I am worn out.

She is brainwashed, doesn't think of anything g long term, has stopped any after school clubs etc, the only club she will go to. In school is LGBT because hey guess what! Unlike knitting (people can see what you knit and it might not look as good as someone else's!) art club (people can see your drawings and it might not be as good as soneone else's!) debate club (people can listen to your debate and it might not be.... You get the idea....

We had organised counselling but dd after a couple of session said she didn't want to do. It as she would have to face her insecurities so avoided it.. The counsellor said they can't force her to engage.

I'm just fed up. I want to shake her and point out she is just talking bollocks (she absolutely does not have dysmorphia or identity issues) but she is again dropping out of comparing herself to other girls as dd has short hair, refuses to exercise (I won't pick her up from schoil so she has to walk to ensure she gets some exercise as she won't walk or do physical activity at home) and school let her study instead of PE - so I know she looks at other girls in her year group and sees them as totally different as she is withdrawn, overweight (I NEVER say this to her) never had a boyfriend or girl friend I honestly think that she is using trans as an excuse for feeling like she is not as pretty, outgoing or confident as her peers.

The worst thing is she could be anything if she just tried, but she is so brittle and not willing to try hard / be brave with anything g she just uses the trans as a mask.

And I 'm just fucking fed up.

Sorry for the rant. I just am feeling so sad for her, so angry and so worn out.

So sorry, a ‘payment plan’.

Just chiming in with deep sympathy and a link https://pitt.substack.com/ to pick your way through.

Just thinking out loud but is there any way you could engage her with the outside world in some way eg paid work or volunteering where the focus would be on caring/being responsible for things outside herself - eg volunteering at an animal shelter if shes interested in animals, food bank or caring work?

She sounds similar to me as a self obsessed teen and the thing that got me out of my head and got rid of many of my illusions was working as a carer for people with dementia and realizing it wasnt about 'me' and no one was judging how I looked/my self perceived successes and pride, but it was about what I was doing (engaging, caring, being responsible) and that mattered much more and was real in a way that the identities/costumes/attitudes I was trying on were not.

In one of the detrans stories (I think it was one of the young women from Pique Resilience) she talked about how getting in touch with her body through physical activity helped her come through her troubles. She spent a summer on a horse ranch so I don't imagine you have that option(!) but is there is an activity she can do that will help her feel embodied, and bring joy in using her healthy boday?

I would also restrict her internet access both in time of day and content.

Best of luck.

Being with horses is often cited as bringing tremendous help to troubled teens, and if she is autistic it may help her to be with animals.

I think telling her she can do anything is overwhelming for her, can you suggest more specific things that aren't competitive and even do them together. She needs something to hang her identity and self esteem on. What is she good at or has she enjoyed for it's own sake?

In this case trans is just the default option for her, rather than a driving force. She sounds desperate to latch on to something and might flourish when she isn't feeling compared to school peers.

Non competitive things might include: Community choir, baking, walking dogs at a rescue centre, outdoor swimming, horror film club, comic book making, canoeing, roller skating/derby, rock climbing...

If there are skills involved, get her to do an intensive week in the summer so she overcomes the steepest part of the learning curve.

I think this is good advice.
Your DD is a sad lonely girl who is struggling with social acceptance. She's found a tribe online who are kind, like her and have answers to her questions. What's not to like.
I suggest you are alongside her and listen, set sensible and reasonable parameters - she needs to be able to talk to you. She sounds terribly naive and vulnerable. Not understanding or even knowing there are long term consequences for things like binders isn't uncommon but highlights how dangerous they are.
If she wants to wear a suit, I would let her and show some interest in helping her find something she likes.
The suggestion of volunteering is good - a lot of kids with poor self esteem would benefit from this. In terms of sport - my DD likes boxing. The gym she goes to is very strong on female empowerment but also trans and gay friendly so something like that might be a comfortable place for her?

Thanks everyone.

I'll check out that doc / link.
Yes to work or vunteering - GCSEs finish mid June. She needs to focus on these as her grades for the courses she wants to do are borderline so there has to be all hands on deck for study, however I am helping her with lots of job applications so hopefully something in place for after GCSEs. If not I have some volunteering forms ready to be handed in. I definitely agree she needs to be in the outside world, kept busy and in some position of responsibility to stop her having time in her hands to be introspective, if that makes sense.

I wish policy makers could read threads like these to realise why women are speaking up about this gender ideology. OP you are at the coalface of it like many other parents who are trying to help their children.
From what I have seen is that as most children get into sixth form, they have grown out of the ideology. So your Dd, if she sticks with this will have fewer peers in a similar mind set. That may have a positive or negative affect as she seeks out her crowd online.
One thing that always helped me was the unconditional love of animals. Horses, dogs, cats etc. Nature is a great leveller and may remind her that her biological sex can’t be changed.

please google inattentive adhd and see if that applies.
has she had her thryoid checked? do you have autoimmune in your family?

Also, for GCSEs, really get her to focus on English Language and Maths. Those are the two that employers concentrate on.

On wearing a suit for the prom I'd totally be behind that. The dresses are awful and revealing. This happened the last time women had to be ultra feminine
https://www.anothermag.com/fashion-beauty/8064/teddy-girls-the-style-subculture-that-time-forgot

Get her something like a navy blue trouser suit for prom if that is what she wants, it can be worn to job interviews.

Working with people who are less able than her will show her how well off she is and build her confidence. If there is anywhere nearby that does riding for the disabled try that https://rda.org.uk/

Maybe she could join St Johns Ambulance? First aid skills are valued in jobs too. Or the Cinnamon Trust will take people from 16 if she likes dogs. https://cinnamon.org.uk/volunteers/

That sounds horrific OP. I can see similarities with my DD15. Shes autistic, anxious and depressed and has the same avoidance tactics. Shes spent a lot of time also online and unfortunately went down the anorexia road, there's groups and sites on there ready to draw in vulnerable children. I'm actually surprised shes never got on the trans bandwagon, shes vulnerable and has low self esteem.
I haven't read the whole thread but I'm wondering if CAMHS could offer any support?

Been via cahms... Totally shit. Tried to palm us off to a charity that helps trans teens. Didn't tell us it was obligatory in a sense, so gave the charity dd details, yet didn't give the charity any background I fo Re dd. So, charity assumed this is a trans person, and as I wanted to wait before they spoke to her was told I would be referred to council duty and advice safeguarding g and piss social services. When I explained self harm g, anxiety, confidence issues, refusing to engage with counselling, lack of friendships, dd habit of adopting identity of any group part of to prove sincerity of her friendship but self harm bei g linked to not wanting to say had made a mistake with a gcse course and wanting to change her mi d (even tjough we could see thud happening and said she could change her mi d and would help her!) and wanting to go to the charity to 'make friends and make bead gracelets' I explained concerns it wasn't the right area and likely hood is she would further adopt a persona and risk throw g herself I to it with some decisions that couldn't be reversed.

On hear g this the charity agreed with me ( I was having to make up to R at work as was havi g 1 or 2 hour phone calls with them Re this!) to basically explain myself and dd to explain the possible catastrophic risks they agreed they could see.

Cahms excuse? "we do 't kniw how the charity operates" my reply - well as you are working together and referring very fragile, or high risk, or safeguarding concern clients don't you think you should k ow tjis? Was met with a wall if silence.

Re the suit - I don't mind her wearing one, it is the "I need to look like a man on photis" that has just started to break me. It's a flag of more shit I'm on bloody high alert for.

I was tryi g to source a particular one she wants that is out of stock, and will support her, but trying to mitigate the being a man part of it.

Fucki g hell I am so jaded with daily life at the moment.

I've been involved in and watching this evolve for years and you're absolutely right. It's the girls who don't fit in — the girls who are a bit chunky, not conventionally attractive, the awkward girls — who are attending Pride marches draped in pink and baby blue. Online trans groups are the places they meet people like themselves. I was one of those non-conforming girls when I was growing up and fortunately I got involved in feminism and politics and learned to love being different. It's so sad that young women who could find feminism a source of strength are being turned against it because transgenderism is so anti-women and anti-feminism.

I know two women locally going through similar experiences with daughters and both are being driven half-mad by the situation. The Bayswater Support Group offers help to parents.
https://www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/
Good luck.

Well my DD came into my room this morning and the topic got on to talking about the man advertising women's Nike sports wear. When I said it was a man she corrected me to "no, it's a woman", when I counted that he did not have a feminine body, no breast or hips she countered back that "there are lots of women who have lost their breast due to cancer or are flat chested that would find it helpful having someone of that body frame advertising clothes" when I said that he was taking a job and income from a female athlete she just said all jobs should be open to everyone.

It's like slamming your head against a brick wall, how has equality gone so far they wrong way and how are they so blind to it!!!!!!!! I know she's autistic, I know it's coming from a good place and she thinks she's being kind to a marginalised group and she's only 13 so I've got to tread lightly but it's so hard. Its like saying the sky is blue (well very grey here today) and being told its purple. She's gas lighting me but I genuinely think she believes it.

Look after yourself too. Your daughter needs you rested, calm and firm in your convictions.

This trans identity is just a small part of her. Don’t give it too much importance and focus on other aspects she likes. The options proposed volunteering, work and nature are good.

it’s a typical frame for ROGD, many of these kids will abandon the ideology with a watchful wait approach.🤞🏼

I’ve heard amazing things about Bayswater. My kids are still young, but I’m constantly on the look out for the nefarious. it must be really hard, she thinks she’s found her tribe.

On the confidence thing…volunteering and especially working with horses is a really good shout, I used to work with Riding for the Disabled as a teen and it definitely built my confidence (and kept me out of trouble). But you also have to work with others which might be too much to start with. When I was struggling in my late 20s I found gardening to be incredibly grounding.

RE the suit thing - go with it, maybe show her some pictures of some incredible gender non- conforming women looking amazing wearing suits - there’s been loads over the years.

you need to be there for her (best you can) we're here for you. It is horrific to have to listen to your daughter come out with all this sexist nonsense. And it is exhausting and demoralising dealing with a teenager who is discouraged / depressed (for any reason) but won't take your advice on how to more positively engage with life.

/sending virtual hugs

Oh dear. I agree that would be catastrophic. Very lazy and illjudged of camhs. That would've been like sending my daughter to slimming world when she was insisting she was fat at 5st, instead of dealing with the actual anorexia.
She needs help unpicking the root causes of the identity/self esteem/vulnerability, the trans issue seems to be a symptom of these things.
In my experience, building self confidence, distractions, counselling sessions and anti depressants (for me too!) Have been life saving .

what a horrid subculture this is. Makes the emo kids look downright cool in comparison. I’m sorry your poor daughter got caught up in it and hope she makes it through to the other side unscathed.

Cahms excuse? "we do 't kniw how the charity operates" my reply - well as you are working together and referring very fragile, or high risk, or safeguarding concern clients don't you think you should k ow tjis? Was met with a wall if silence.

I’ve seen CAMHS and adult mental health do this sort of thing in our area and I have heard similar in other areas. They don’t have the resources or don’t want to spend them so refer people to local charities or groups made up of well meaning but totally unqualified individuals. Good groups/charities know their limits, make this clear and may refuse to accept direct referrals. But the ones who put themselves forward to accept these referrals, tell CAMHS/adult services how great they are etc, can be dangerous.

Similar here, some kind mnetters gently asked me had I considered asd. We did an online as quiz together and it was a revelation, realised that because she didn’t feel like her piers, she was trying to find a group that she did fit in with. We went for a private Ed psych diagnosis. Things have got easier, if that gives you some hope.