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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I know many are sceptical re: Matt Walsh but this is so worth watching...

193 replies

AnotherDayAnotherView · 05/04/2023 12:29

Matt Walsh stumps a trans EMT:

"A trans EMT tried to use his medical training to prove that sex is not binary. He ran into trouble when I asked him how he’d respond to a patient with a penis who claims he’s having a miscarriage." https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1643450523235028995?cxt=HHwWhsDUteTi2s4tAAAA

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1643450523235028995?cxt=HHwWhsDUteTi2s4tAAAA

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8
Notatmine · 07/04/2023 11:53

Again, I'm sorry but not my experience at all and I have moved in Left and Right circles a lot over the course of my life. I have always found the Conservative Right to have a better understanding of the Progressive Left than the other way around. In fact, there was an interesting study to this effect where Left and Right wing people were asked what the other would think about various matters and the Right usually were much more accurate about the other party than the Left were

This doesn’t surprise me at all. The self-identified progressive left hate the Right and so think their hatred of them means they don’t need to listen to anything they say ( which rather begs the question of how can you hate someone/ thing that you deliberately don’t really understand..)
It’s the same mentality as TRAs hating us without knowing what we say. The fact they hate us is enough for them. And reason not to listen to us.

Honestly, it’s this mentality of righteousness certitude mixed with extreme intolerance that has made me move away from the left.

Brefugee · 07/04/2023 13:13

This doesn’t surprise me at all. The self-identified progressive left hate the Right and so think their hatred of them means they don’t need to listen to anything they say ( which rather begs the question of how can you hate someone/ thing that you deliberately don’t really understand..)

tbh with the current crop i think it's much more a matter of hating anyone who doesn't 100% agree with you, and an unwillingness to listen to anything approaching a dissenting voice.

Which is how you get the TRA idiots calling JKR a Nazi. They have zero understanding of anything they don't believe, personally. And since many of them are students it is a worrying thought that any willingness to listen to anything outside your own echo-chamber, and any critical thought and ability to understand diverse POVs is quite worrying.

NancyDrawed · 07/04/2023 14:11

I found MrMom's manic laugh after Matt Walsh asked him how he wasn't safe quite disturbing.

I felt sorry for EMT guy.

Fair play to both blokes for putting themselves forward in the way that they did, but I think both need support for whatever it was that got them to this point.

I agree with Matt Walsh that lying to 'be kind' is the most damaging to both men for different reasons.

namitynamechange · 07/04/2023 14:38

I don't think it is so much a question about whether women are listened to more generally. But specifically in the case of the transwomen, I think they would have a stronger reaction to a woman saying the same things that Matt Walsh did. I might be completely wrong about that of course.
More broadly its definitely the case that apostates get a stronger reaction than infidels. And maybe women in general (and black women even more) since there is an idea that you should be left wing/on the side of transwomen.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 07/04/2023 15:27

The the man who claimed that he was a mother answered this one for us. Men are women when women agree that they are in his opinion so if he believes that then for him validation from women is what matters. Then he can always say to men, as he did to Mr Walsh, “but the women I know agree that I am a woman” and many men, maybe most men will just shrug and assume this is a mess of women’s own making. Some men understand that there is more at stake here and will push back. When women push back it really triggers outrage in men who want to use the lie of our consent to get into our spaces, to use our words, to gain special privileges, to enjoy having power over us and access to us and our children and to enjoy having the power to make massive political and societal changes by imposing participation in their delusions on everyone and destroying social norms aka boundaries which make women and children (also in some circumstances some vulnerable men) safer.

OldGardinia · 08/04/2023 07:41

PomegranateOfPersephone · 07/04/2023 15:27

The the man who claimed that he was a mother answered this one for us. Men are women when women agree that they are in his opinion so if he believes that then for him validation from women is what matters. Then he can always say to men, as he did to Mr Walsh, “but the women I know agree that I am a woman” and many men, maybe most men will just shrug and assume this is a mess of women’s own making. Some men understand that there is more at stake here and will push back. When women push back it really triggers outrage in men who want to use the lie of our consent to get into our spaces, to use our words, to gain special privileges, to enjoy having power over us and access to us and our children and to enjoy having the power to make massive political and societal changes by imposing participation in their delusions on everyone and destroying social norms aka boundaries which make women and children (also in some circumstances some vulnerable men) safer.

This is a very accurate summation ime. I first came across it years ago when I use to criticize the trans lobby online on Twitter. A RadFem lady I knew on there said that as a man (apologies - I'm a male on Mumsnet but here and Kiwifarms feel like the last two places this is allowed to be debated so please forgive me my dangly bits), that as a man I could say things and not be attacked for it. I honestly thought that was paranoia at the time but realized soon after she was right. My criticisms were somewhat engaged with but often ignored. Whilst women saying the same thing would get both barrels. And this happened time after time.

I'm not a small fellow so I could see an element of that dissuading aggressive push back in real life, but even online just being male has shown a noticeable difference. I get the odd "burn in Hell, terf" dismissal but nothing like most women get. It genuinely triggers them that it's a woman pushing back, as you say.

I'd actually like to add one more reason to your list for the obsession with making women accept them. Female acceptance de-powers other men from acting. Probably sounds odd but most men want to protect women. Sometimes that may be white knighting true, but regardless if women asked for help because a guy had gone into their toilets and was perving on them, in any bar or club I'd reasonably expect a group of guys to quickly form and go in and remove him. But women are the gatekeepers of their spaces. When you think the women will side with the person harming them, it de-powers you from acting. It's a similar situation to when you see or suspect domestic abuse but know that if you do something, you're going to end up the one in the cell because she sided with her abuser (such is conditioned mindset of abuse victim). Transwomen seek the validation of women for all the reasons you say but also because it provides them a measure of protection. And that doesn't have to be physical like removing a guy physically from the women's toilets. It's social too as in this case. Matt Walsh makes a counterpoint to him and the guy hides behind saying "women say I'm a woman". Instant protection.

Transwomen will argue their case all day long but often what dissuades men from pushing back isn't the trans person themself but lack of social or verbal support from young women when to do so. Both women and men will to some extent patrol their own. Women more so than men but men also. But when a man appears to be "invited" by the otherside, that becomes difficult. Their no longer "your own", they've been taken under the wing and pushing back on them now means you're pushing back at an outgroup (women). Which isn't what most men want to do.

Anyway, I now realize having written all this, that there's probably no group that less needs to be told the value of speaking up more than the Mumsnet women's rights forums! : ) I've gone on a bit of a wander. But maybe this perspective might have some value.

But it's still the case that women - overwhelmingly young and at university or recent grads - reciting "transwomen are women" is a major source of male lack of support. I remember at school a girl reporting that a man had just exposed himself to her near the school. Immediately the entire rugby team sprinted off after him. Why? Because there was no ambiguity that women wanted us to take action.

It's why it really heartens me to see more and more women speaking out against the trans lobby. Because for all that Matt Walsh did a great job in this debate, what will really change things on the ground is more women speaking out and unambiguously rejecting "transwomen are women".

waterlego · 08/04/2023 08:11

Good post @OldGardinia. I forgive you your dangly bits 😂

OldGardinia · 08/04/2023 08:25

waterlego · 08/04/2023 08:11

Good post @OldGardinia. I forgive you your dangly bits 😂

Thank you! 😅I'm sure most agree dangly bits are fine in their place. :)

I always feel a bit funny posting on Mumsnet but really this forum is really one of only two I know where you can really debate and talk about this stuff relatively freely and without being dog-piled. And the level of debate is honestly great - so many insightful people here.

pickledandpuzzled · 08/04/2023 08:42

That's it, OldGardinia! You're now marked with the famous 'Man here!' label!

Nah, you did that very well. Always makes me smile when some poor unsuspecting bloke opens with 'As a man...'.
There's that little pause and then...

My all time favourite will be the young man offering his IT expertise to help us poor lilly brained ladies with our computers, struggling as we were with boobs between us and the keyboard.

<Nostalgic sigh>

Brefugee · 08/04/2023 08:56

That's it, OldGardinia! You're now marked with the famous 'Man here!' label!

First off, thanks @OldGardinia that was a really good point and not one I'd really considered much before.

thb this type of insight is what i had hoped we'd get from that recent thread started (by invitation) by a man that didn't actually materialise.

Thelnebriati · 08/04/2023 10:42

@OldGardinia Female acceptance de-powers other men from acting.

Thats very true, and I also think its why men are so quick to use the 'but women support it' defence for everything from supporting removing women's right to single sex services to strangulation during sex.
But I don't think its always chivalry. I think for macho types it can be a signal to make them lose interest.

waterlego · 08/04/2023 10:44

@pickledandpuzzled, Yes, that thread was hilarious. One of the first replies (and I wish I could remember who it was) being something like: ‘Thank God you’ve turned up. Until now I’ve just been bashing the keyboard with my tits and hoping for the best’ 😂

DemiColon · 08/04/2023 11:39

I think for TRA types and a few others, it is absolutely a sort of rage against women who are specifically thwarting them. I just don't think you can extrapolate that to right wing or left wing men as a whole.

I have some sympathy for the "but some women support it" argument. Not arguing against those with "lived experience" has been a mainstay of leftist thinking for a good long while. The whole construct of some groups being more oppressed, and therefore anyone less oppressed must just shut up and listen is almost ubiquitous. People have been taught that is the only way to atone for their oppressor status and privilege.

Men specifically have been told they have to listen to women on many many occasions. But the fact is that there are women who say all kinds of different things, just like other groups. In a lot of cases women seem to be more inclined to support gender ideology and id politics than men, so I can totally see why men might feel they are best to stay right out of it. How are they meant to choose which women to listen to, if it's all about lived experience?

Tabitha1960 · 09/04/2023 00:03

The blonde female's opening assertion was just staggering.

She stated that she knows "dozens and dozens" of trans individuals whose lives have been save or made substantially better by being affirmed in some way, including surgery/hormones.

"Dozens and dozens"?

I'm 65 and I have never met one.

It was very interesting to see that when probed by Matt on who these people were, it turned out she actually did not know any.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 10/04/2023 17:24

Does anyone happen to know anywhere it is possible to see his film, What is a woman? For free at the moment?

Caramack · 10/04/2023 17:40

PomegranateOfPersephone · 10/04/2023 17:24

Does anyone happen to know anywhere it is possible to see his film, What is a woman? For free at the moment?

It's behind a paywall here:

https://www.dailywire.com/videos/what-is-a-woman

You might want to ask MNHQ to delete your post, I don't think they look kindly on people trying to access media illegally on here.

What is a Woman?

What is a Woman?

It’s the question you’re not allowed to ask. The documentary they don’t want you to see. Join Matt Walsh on his often comical, yet deeply disturbing journey, as he fearlessly questions the logic behind a gender ideology movement that has taken aim at w...

https://www.dailywire.com/videos/what-is-a-woman

beastlyslumber · 10/04/2023 18:31

PomegranateOfPersephone · 10/04/2023 17:24

Does anyone happen to know anywhere it is possible to see his film, What is a woman? For free at the moment?

I watched it on odysee. But that was a few months ago.

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