Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

[PlanetLuna]

MN, will you please create a talk group/category of Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)?

MN appears to currently have only 2 feminism categories:
Feminism: chat
Feminism: sex & gender discussions

But the Feminism: sex & gender category on MN is predominantly GC, with its emphasis on trans exclusion ideology. Feminists who do not subscribe to those beliefs are often unwelcome and treated with derision and hostility in discussions. Certainly not always as some GC posters do enjoy open, intellectual discussions but often enough that engagement can be toxic & intimidating all around.

It is almost impossible for non-GC feminists to find inclusive/non-GC feminist discussions, and we have to wade through unpleasant (for us) GC threads while attempting to do so.

GC feminism dominates on UK parenting sites in particular. However, inclusive/non-GC feminism is extremely popular around the world (especially in places like the US, NZ, and AU) and in the UK among younger feminists and those who do not see trans rights as a threat to women & girls’ safety. Many UK feminists are non-GC but may feel silenced on MN.

The addition of another category will help open up and improve MN discussions while reducing the toxicity and hostility that many feminists on both sides experience in discussions.

So I propose the following feminism discussion categories:
Feminism: chat (general)
Feminism: sex & gender discussions (GC)
Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

@MNHQ

I wish this was true, however it seems to be a mix of genuine GC debate and the effects on women, and calling Drag Queens paedophiles on the regular. I was called a child molester because I questioned the accusations made against Jeffrey Marsh. This board is fucking hostile.

Non GC Feminist is an oximoron

*you're.

My hard what?

Thanks for confirming that you can't provide any evidence at all for this thing which is apparently ubiquitous here.

And for ignoring the rest of my post.

But you posted some 'crying laughing' emojis. Well done you. Impressive stuff.

Or for you to find @Seasonofthewitch83 just a link will do …..

Are they pile ons? Or are they just a number of posters stating their opinion?
OP is welcome to his/her/their opinion and as this is a discussion board, it is to be expected that people share their thoughts.
Most posters being of a similar opinion does not make it a pile-on.

Disagreement does not equal 'pile on'.

I think some posters are struggling to understand what 'discussion' actually means.

Hello @PlanetLuna thanks for posting. The Sex & Gender board in Feminism isn't just for posters with a gender critical perspective and you'll find many posters there (including lots of regular users) who do not. We want people to have civil and constructive discussions - and as we say in our guidelines, we're convinced it's the only way forward.

Right but drag queens and Jeffrey marsh aren’t trans. Drag queens are generally gay men who dress up as women for entertainment purposes. Jeffrey Marsh as I understand it is a (deeply creepy) non-binary person. So again I am asking where people have demonised trans individuals? Btw people are allowed to question things. Being non-binary or trans isn’t a get out of jail free card. Jeffrey Marsh’a conduct breaches every single safeguarding measure in the book, and he makes a living out of it. He should be questioned.

MNHQ isn’t going to set up the third forum you’re looking for OP - mainly because it doesn’t make any sense.

But predominantly, because ‘feminism chat’ is already right there for exactly your purpose.

Why can’t you just post in ‘feminism chat’ @PlanetLuna?

Oh dear!

Correcting someone’s grammar or spelling is beyond embarrassing.

Maybe come off of MN for a few minutes each day and try getting a hobby love.

I think the tone of this thread could be the reason the op would like a different place for people to post. Do you all hear yourselves? Would you allow your children to gang up on people the way you do? A lot of people stay away from the feminism part of mn exactly because of the behaviour on this thread, people demanding answers, scoffing, generally being hostile and horrible

Timid as mice you say. All us women who have been marching, speaking, writing, crowd funding and campaigning for years are timid as mice.
Why are you so keen to portray women as weak? What narrative does that suit?

I don't think its necessary for 50 people to reply to one comment, no, not if they aren't adding anything useful or constructive to the conversation. It makes threads very tiresome to read and good points get lost in the drivel.

it shouldn’t be too hard for you to find one.

The classics are always the best :)
I expect you to google for my point isn't as strong an argument as you think it is.

I think some posters have spent too much time on Twitter with the “only people xxxxx has mentioned can reply” function and get upset when they post on a discussion board and any Tim dick and Harry can reply. And they have to see opinions they disagree with, or got asked to back up their arguments.

@PlanetLuna I’m pretty new here too so I’m still trying to learn about all this. In your OP you say you want this new area for “those who don’t see trans rights as a threat to womens and girls’ safety”. Please can you explain this?

OP I think you are perfectly welcome to post whatever you want but I think you have to accept that women will have their own opinions on what you say. Feminism is for women it’s not for men, sex based differences are the key reason women have been oppressed across time and across cultures for millenia. Asking actual feminists to try to just ignore that bit is a bit much.

I’ve posted on posts where someone has a trans child, I’ve never felt anything but compassion for them and their family (especially their kid). If someone can find a thread where such a parent has been treated shabbily I’d be happy to admit that there are a bunch of hyaenas on here.

I think the problem is calling it feminism. If you want a board for trans activism that would be a logical request.

I am a "terf" and "GC"... but also very pro trans rights (I.e. for people to live the life they want to without criticism... just don't consider people actually able to change sex and shouldn't be able to use those rights to abuse others for example sports, medical facilities and prisons)

But they are all put under the same umbrella by many on this board.

You want to ration who can reply to posts. Sounds pretty controlling!

Where have I said women are weak?
I am a woman - why would I call myself weak?

Its the keyboard warriors that are weak.

Inclusive, as in not preoccupied with demonising trans people as part of my feminist worldview. Inclusive as in not threatened by using the term cis to describe people like myself during discourse.

Nobody demonises trans-identifying people on the Feminism threads. We may demonise aggressive, fetishistic male people for their behaviour, but surely you realise that these men make life difficult for both women and trans-identifying people?

The GC view is consistently about safeguarding vulnerable people, particularly women and children.

As JK Rowling said:
^Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?^

Call yourself cis, if you like, but don’t dump that label on others who reject it. Call men women, if you like, but don’t expect that view to go unchallenged. Because that’s what you’re doing. You’re asking for a little corner of MN to be ringfenced for you to promote your exclusive philosophy. Who feels threatened here?

But they are all put under the same umbrella by many on this board.

and by stonewall. So either they come under the trans umbrella or they don’t. Which is it?

Ah. So someone posted something and no one agreed and explained why they disagreed clearly and assertively in the way many of us have done here for years, and now the poster wants a Be Kind board where they can post what they want and no one will disagree? Have I got that right?

Does this remind you of anything?