Can MNHQ set up a new discussion category called Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

[PlanetLuna]

MN, will you please create a talk group/category of Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)?

MN appears to currently have only 2 feminism categories:
Feminism: chat
Feminism: sex & gender discussions

But the Feminism: sex & gender category on MN is predominantly GC, with its emphasis on trans exclusion ideology. Feminists who do not subscribe to those beliefs are often unwelcome and treated with derision and hostility in discussions. Certainly not always as some GC posters do enjoy open, intellectual discussions but often enough that engagement can be toxic & intimidating all around.

It is almost impossible for non-GC feminists to find inclusive/non-GC feminist discussions, and we have to wade through unpleasant (for us) GC threads while attempting to do so.

GC feminism dominates on UK parenting sites in particular. However, inclusive/non-GC feminism is extremely popular around the world (especially in places like the US, NZ, and AU) and in the UK among younger feminists and those who do not see trans rights as a threat to women & girls’ safety. Many UK feminists are non-GC but may feel silenced on MN.

The addition of another category will help open up and improve MN discussions while reducing the toxicity and hostility that many feminists on both sides experience in discussions.

So I propose the following feminism discussion categories:
Feminism: chat (general)
Feminism: sex & gender discussions (GC)
Feminism: sex & gender discussion (inclusive, non-GC)

@MNHQ

So @PlanetLuna if you don’t believe women are oppressed because of their sex, as you state males can be women too, what does your inclusive feminism look like? Who is it supporting and lifting up? What aspects of feminism are not about sex and gender? Women are oppressed because of their sex and gender is the tool used to oppress them. So how can you have any kind of feminism without discussing sex and or gender….?

Do you not realise that when males can take over women's sport, take prizes, scholarships and places on schemes intended to benefit women and address gender inequality, and be promoted 'as women' in a way that superficially readdresses the gender balance within their organisation, that you have taken away all of the tools that were created to enable women to participate in employment and gain economic equality?

Don't you understand that if you take away the possibility of accurately identifying who is and is not a woman, you have fatally destroyed all possibility of making employment and society more equitable?

You won't get any disrespectful comments from me. But you'll have to argue your cause, and promise to keep arguing it.

Self-imposed isolation from the GCs is not the way forward.

Yes, WTF is that all about?
OP - Give Mush a try. You might find it a good fit.

Haven't a clue what the first post means. God, I hate accronyms! But, I will read it again and try to understand it.

@Labraradabrador

But there is a board for discussions about equal pay! It's the general feminist chat one. That's exactly what it is there for and most people would engage with it very willingly

Hmmmm what does this actually mean? Not mentioning you don’t believe you can have a cock and balls and be a woman?

tl;dr: I want an echo chamber where no one will disagree with me.

OP, you have literally the EXACT WHOLE OF THE REST OF MUMSNET for the type of discussions you want.
Sorry for shouting, but FFS!

The split of the feminism board happened while I was still only lurking, but I heard about it. This one board is the ONLY place on mumsnet that we're allowed to discuss how we don't think gender stereotypes are helpful or meaningful.

Done!

@ConstanceOcean you say "Most MNers will not even come into the feminist board for this reason." But how do you know that at all? You can't possibly. Sure, plenty of vocal posters will say how much they hate this section but you can't possibly say that most MNers wont even come into the feminist board at all.

I fail to see how wanting to retain women's rights, spaces and definition is “derailing”

I guess it's another way of trying to force "no debate", maybe?

You can have discussions anywhere, but is what you're wanting somewhere that particular views are not allowed?

That sounds horribly familiar…

Since I hid AIBU (best decision ever by the way), sex and gender threads often show up in my little trending box. It’s a busy board

Yes the whole 'those horrible women are driving hundreds of thousands of women off MN' line was the one used to get HQ to create the chat thread. There it is. HQ created it. It's not being used for much, go and use it.

Although I think to ask women not to 'derail' anti-women conversations is a bit strange, and I doubt you would accept the idea that FWR should never be 'derailed' with other views or posts such as yours?

Me too! lifelong, active feminist in her 50s here. Appalled by what I've been witnessing these last couple of years. Plus, LGBTQ spaces have always been the safest and most feminist spaces for me - not just physically safe from sexual harassment, but safe to be myself and I've always felt welcome - in the past and now. Not going to forget that that.

I haven't read the whole thread yet but what is going on?

Do the Posie detractors need some internet space with greater scope for more fibs?

I can only surmise they are not finding the salon and magazine sales as popular as they had hoped?

I will now open up the wine and check out the ratio.

I think it would be better if it wasn't under the feminism umberella. Though I can see the argument for that. But you can be a woman and not a feminist. I wouldn't describe myself as a feminist.

Well, as many people have already pointed out, Feminism Chat already exists, so you're a bit late to the party.

Excellent, the two of you can talk to each other on feminism chat

Hellebore hits the nail on the head.

@Labraradabrador ’Just wanted to say I totally get it OP. I was so confused by all the GC nonsense categorised as ‘feminism’ - I have a VERY different understanding of feminism, and my brand of feminism has a different set of priorities (employment and economic equality above bathroom politics).’ Sorry how do you address employment and economic equality without knowing what a woman actually is? In what way are GC concerns nonsense?

If you defend the rights of biological males to be in women’s safe spaces above the rights of women to feel safe in those spaces then you’re not a feminist.

For anyone finding this particular small board difficult, there are so many other parts of mumsnet to post in that might suit you. There's the other feminism board (feminism chat) - it doesn't allow GC discussions (i.e. discussions about how gender stereotypes are not helpful/meaningful in determining someone's sex).
There's an LGBT section, and an LGBT children's section.

This board is the only one where we're allowed to have the discussions that you find difficult. It was made that way so that people knew where to avoid if they wanted to.