Life without GC women

[StephanieSuperpowers]

There's a recent poll showing that most women don't want mixed sex toilets:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/philosophy/trackers/support-for-separate-toilets-for-men-and-women-and-gender-neutral-toilets-in-public-spaces

It's happening anyway, regardless of what women want, just like the rest of this demented social experiment.

I wonder what it would be like if GC women quietly withdrew from public life outside work? If all social spaces were men, transwomen and transmen.

How would society function without the presence of women?

As I said, I'm not nearly so invested or rehearsed in these arguments as you.

Surprising that someone who identifies themselves as a feminist wouldn't be invested in the erosion of women's rights and safety.

Why is that then?

Thinking of women as having an existence beyond a safety net for some men is having some humanity. Attempting to force unconsenting women to come between men and risk violence in doing so is what I consider inhumane.

Weird that an old skool classic feminist would think otherwise.

What is the middle ground between wanting a certain space to be mixed-sex and wanting it to be single-sex? if @inininsomnia could let us know it would sort a hell of a lot of this out.

GC people are up for third spaces, btw, but that is imposing their will so not acceptable.

Third spaces are fine. Once I would have helped campaign for them, but fuck it, I don't care anymore. Men can stay out of women's single sex spaces and campaign for alternative spaces for themselves.

@inininsomnia flouncers corner is that way hun ———>

I'm sorry. I've said I can't win these arguments because am less dedicated to this cause.

You can't 'win' them when you're wedded to an ideology that requires no critical thought, only the repetition of the same mantra. Take the time out to think for yourself.

Godspeed.

Been there, done that got the “the mean women are not listening to me so I’m going” wardrobe of tee shirts love. You’re not the first, won’t be the last.

It's very telling that you frame women fighting for their rights as hatred.

It must be exhausting and weary to not be able to grasp the truth. I would find it discombobulating too. There are things you can do to improve that though. The truth is very liberating.

I'm angry at anyone who can sore the energy to fill the world with more intolerance.

me too. It’s why I’m resisting the gender ideology that demand women submit or be punished. That’s not what you meant though is it? You think beating threatening and bullying women who refuse to capitulate is tolerance?

Because I'm bedbound with serious illness and have very few waking hours to engage with the world. As I've said, I shouldn't have gotten involved here. I'm angry at anyone who can sore the energy to fill the world with more intolerance.

Yet you have come here with intolerance for people who want to protect woman and girls rights and safeguards. You should be angry at yourself for that. Maybe you will be one day.

There seems to be a misconception that gc women hate trans people for what they are, rather than simply refuse to see them for what they say they are. I personally don’t give a toss how some people I’ve never met and never will do live their lives. But I will never consent to nor attempt to do so on behalf of all other women the presence of biological males in female prisons, shelters, sports, or indeed toilets. Nor accept the weird erasure of the word “women” from official and medical communications directed at… women.

and the rates at which young women attempt to opt out of womanhood in a hyper sexualised world, or same sex attracted young women try to “fix” themselves by becoming “boys”, absolutely breaks my heart. There are so many factors at play here.

You are in the same position as GC women. You just don't know it yet.

Thanks. The stats have spoken. That's truly terrible. We must of course throw open all the doors to women's spaces immediately. Those stats are clearly credible and absolutely heartbreaking.

How I would love to hold up a mirror to that comment.

Indeed.

Goodness me, every comment withdrawn. Why on earth would they want to do that...

Really exclusionary to say there is middle ground then refuse to tell us what it is.
I'll be kind, I thought there was 'middle ground' a few years ago but it would always involve making a judgement about 'how trans' a person was and that is so unpalatable let alone practically impossible. That was back when I mistakenly thought a trans person was someone who realised their sex and wanted to be the opposite sex.

I'm starting to think 'middle ground' is the new 'shut up and give up your rights' fig leaf.

Women said no.

On those suicide statistics: The high percentages trans activists use are based on very small samples in surveys carried out by LGBTQetc. organisations and have to do with suicidal ideation and self-reported attempts to commit suicide. They do not refer to completed suicides.

What we lack is good data on completed suicides by young trans-identifying people, the kind of data which also takes into account existing comorbidities, such as various mental health conditions, and the kinds of factors which contribute towards suicide, such as discrimination against gay and Lesbian people.

The reason we need all that data is because suicide rates are (tragically) also higher among those young people who are gay or Lesbian and (equally tragically) higher among young people who suffer from anxiety, depression and various other mental disorders.

Because many of those things can be true simultaneously for someone, the question if trans-identifying young people are more likely to commit suicide can't be separated easily from the increased suicide rates for those who are gay or Lesbian i a hostile environment and for those who suffer from various mental disorders.

This is what I found about the completed suicide rate among young trans-identifying people:

A recent study of three major youth clinics concluded that suicidality of trans-identifying teens is only somewhat elevated compared to that of youth referred for mental health issues unrelated to gender identity struggles (de Graaf et al., 2020). Another study found that transgender-identifying teens have relatively similar rates of suicidality compared to teens who are gay, lesbian and bisexual (Toomey, Syvertsen, & Shramko, 2018). Depression, eating disorders, autism spectrum conditions, and other mental health conditions commonly found in transgender-identifying youth (Kaltiala-Heino, Bergman, Työläjärvi, & Frisen, 2018; Kozlowska, McClure, et al., 2021; Morandini, Kelly, de Graaf, Carmichael, & Dar-Nimrod, 2021) are all known to independently contribute to the probability of suicide (Biggs, 2022; Simon & VonKorff, 1998; Smith, Zuromski, & Dodd, 2018).
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2046221

Also may be relevant:

the survey is usually self selecting so not a balanced representation of the population as a whole

it is rarely (possibly never) balanced with the same question being asked of all the age group as a whole to get those statistics for comparison, and how common such ideation is in all of this age group regardless of identity

they are rarely (possibly never) disaggregated for other vulnerabilities associated with high risk in statistics, such as Autism, MH diagnoses, eating disorders, trauma, CSA, to be able to be better informed on possible reasons and comparisons within the data.