Life without GC women

[StephanieSuperpowers]

There's a recent poll showing that most women don't want mixed sex toilets:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/philosophy/trackers/support-for-separate-toilets-for-men-and-women-and-gender-neutral-toilets-in-public-spaces

It's happening anyway, regardless of what women want, just like the rest of this demented social experiment.

I wonder what it would be like if GC women quietly withdrew from public life outside work? If all social spaces were men, transwomen and transmen.

How would society function without the presence of women?

How do you feel about third spaces...Male, Female, Gender neutral? I would help campaign for those.

Go on then @inininsomnia what is your suggestion to women keeping single sex spaces for their safety, privacy and dignity, and keeping males who wish to be seen as women happy? If you are ok with self exclusion for women, why not suggest those males who do not feel comfortable in male spaces self exclude? As a feminist, surely you should be supporting those women who for various reasons cannot use mixed sex spaces right? It’s so good you’ve confirmed you don’t buy into gender ideology though. We’ll make a feminist of you yet. 😉

Like fuck. What I don't do is buy into an ideology that demonises a whole sector of society and denies them basic rights Self-exclusion is exactly that, the middle ground isthere to be found

A very long time ago women were prepared to find a middle ground. For years patience and kind conversation took place about what compromise could be made.
But the trans ideologists said no. We want everything. We are you. But better than you. And we will have everything of yours and more.
Women got sad.
Then they organised and campaigned.
Now the whole world sees what's happening.
And the message back to you now is.... No. No compromise. It's over.

I hope you enjoy the poor fruits of your labour. You thought you had everything. But you don't.

"No Taxation without Representation" is a noble cry, and I've thought it often but it's hard to put into practice, most obviously since HMRC get hold of it before it enters our bank accounts.
But it can be done, at a cost. I have inherited an oak gate legged table and two carver chairs from a set which used to belong to Mrs Charlotte Despard, a suffragist. She refused to pay, the bailiffs came and took her furniture. Her friends bought it auction and gave it back. This happened several times until she tod her friends not to do it. Which led to my grandparents buying a few things. We've lost the rest before they came to me, but we have always been proud to have them. Given the value, and my family not being wealthy, I think the auction was rigged not to raise much money.
But anyone moved to withhold their tax, remember what you might lose.

except a strong sense that much of this could be resolved with more open debate (more calmly on bothsides)

Both sides? Get to feck. Did you see what happened in NZ? The aggression and violence comes from one side only. That's yours. Own it.

Special thanks to Posie parker for highlighting it, without needing to say a single word.

If it's ok to require women to self exclude from facilities they can't access, then it's ok to require men with TQ+ identities to self exclude from facilities too.

Otherwise your middle ground is actually just prioritising men over women, which is not really 'middle ground' is it?

The middle ground would be third spaces, gender neutral. Those happy to use mixed sex facilities or who do not feel ok in sex based spaces have their needs met, and those who can only access single sex spaces have their needs met, no exclusions. This would however require male people to respect that women need inclusion too, and not to insist on controlling and using female only spaces.

You know, like as happened in Hamstead Ponds, where a male who claims a TQ+ identity can take their best choice in the moment from all three ponds, male, mixed and female, where many women who used to love swimming now cannot go at all. Because of selfish, exclusionary males, for whom two accessible choices was not enough.

Plenty of harm has happened to women in old fashioned single sex facilities - I remember at university knowing which campus blocks to avoid.

The overwhelming majority of that from males. That's why, single sex spaces. Clever innit.

inininsomnia if you're a woman then why on earth is your priority men? Clealy if you're not a woman it's a bit more self-explanatory.

Plenty of harm has happened to women in old fashioned single sex facilities - I remember at university knowing which campus blocks to avoid.

so who was harming the women in single sex facilities? Was it males? In which case why are you wanting to make all facilities mixed sex? Surely this would put women in danger? And if males with a trans identity are “unsafe” in male facilities, surely they would be just as unsafe in “mixed sex facilities as there would still be males there? Or are you suggesting the women in those facilities are used as human shields for the males with a trans identity? Not very feminist of you is it?

👏👏👏

I'd love to see the stats on the horrific rate of suicides by trans people.

@inininsomnia can you please link to the actual numbers on this? I presume you've seen some actual confirmed statistics.

Yes, most harm to women in single spaces comes from men but they know that women are at their most vulnerable thereif they can gain acess. But trans people are also horribly vulnerable to sexual violence.

All done by men. Explain why women need to get involved in shielding one set of men from another?

It's all shitty and complicated but I have seen far more trans people than women suffer, and badly, from this dangerous hostility

Yes well the TRAs should have considered that consequence when they starting pushing for every single woman's right and space in existence. Of course there was going to be a pushback.
The dysphoric transsexuals who were living their lives quietly are not very happy about it from what I've seen on twitter.

And btw any suggestion of a middle ground will get your tarred as a terf just as much as the rest of us.

You're not going to "prolong any debates here" because you're ignoring every question or point that's being put to you and just repeating "compromise" without acknowledging that all of the compromising is expected from one side. You're ignoring the fact that it's the TRA side that's violently silencing women.

So @inininsomnia do you also believe males with a trans identity belong in womens prisons and refuges as well as rape crisis centres, even though this would cause trauma to vulnerable women? As a feminist, shouldn’t you be putting women first? Who is going to pay for the designing and building of these wonderful new facilities? What about buildings where there is no space for your grand designs?

It sickens me that men, can now, apparently become women. They really can’t, it’s a dark time for women.

That's the thing. I'm not a bigot. I'm not prejudiced. I feel depressed and frighened. A dark time indeed.

How so? Did the activists assaulting women, bullying women and threatening women have humanity? Have you told them their actions cause trauma to women and girls? If not, why not? A 70 year old woman got punched in the head for wanting to speak. Where was the humanity then? Vulnerable women are locked up with violent male rapists? Where’s the humanity there? Average survivor was excluded from a support group as the males being there triggered her and she complained? There were other groups that male could have gone to. Ho chose to join the one for females only. Where was his humanity?

Gladiaterf · Today 13:55

I'd love to see the stats on the horrific rate of suicides by trans people.

Here ya go: 273% of transw who are asked not to use the ladies jump off Beachy Head. It's 100% true fact, that ,- it's on twitter and everything.

But trans people are also horribly vulnerable to sexual violence. Creative, inclusive design should safeguard everyone.

Most people can see what sex someone is.

There is no way to tell if someone has what they believe is a gender identity that they believe isn't compatible with one sex, unless they tell you or act in a way that displays it (going into opposite-sex toilets etc). It's an invisible feeling. So I don't think it's on an equal footing at all - no-one can tell what gender identity someone has - many people don't even know what one is!

Or are you only counting a subgroup of trans people that excludes others? Interested to know. I'm GC and also trans under certain definitions. I think I am far more vulnerable due to being female than due to the possibility of what I consider my lack of gender identity.

trans people are also horribly vulnerable to sexual violence. Creative, inclusive design should safeguard everyone.

Post the stats on who these trans people are who at most risk. Their life style, who they mix with, and more importantly, who are the perpetrators. Whilst you're about it, compare the rate of women murdered every year in the UK, compared to transwoman.

Go on. Check it out.

But @Jonei as an old school feminist @inininsomnia will know the stats on female Rape, assault and murder inside out. It’s us that are feminising wrong by not centring males, not her.