Joe Rogan's in trouble again.

[Wanderingowl]

Joe Rogan was interviewing Dr Peter Attia about his new book on longevity on Tuesday. (At least the interview was released on Tuesday.) As is often the case with Rogan, nearly an hour and a half in, Attita's book and longevity work has barely been mentioned in favour of a lot of talking about competitive fighting. Then Joe turned the discussion to men in women's sports. How stupid it is that it's up for debate. How unfair it is on the women. Attia sounded slightly reticent at first, I only listened, so he might not have looked reticent. But then Attia brought up males in women's prisons and how a lot of them were sex offenders.

They discussed that for a while then went on to how attention seeking being NB is. How they never could have imagined this 20 years ago. Joe talked about how shocked he was about the blowback he got for objecting to Fallon Fox fighting against women in 2015 and how it shocked him. Joe talked more about how this is men cheating and being celebrated for it. Then they referred back to an earlier discussion about being born 100 years ago and how ridiculous this would seem. And then the discussion moved onto political theory.

There are already lots of articles about Joe's transphobic ranting. I do feel somewhat sorry for Peter Attia if he was nervous about this discussion. We all know that being open about having basic common sense in terms of gender can derail your life and career opportunities. So good for him if he hadn't spoken out before.

Part of the discussion here, but the whole thing was longer.

Joe needs to invite Posie on. He can contact her through Meghan Murphy.

They’d have a blast.

Will wait and listen to the whole thing when I have time.

There are already lots of articles about Joe's transphobic ranting.
Doesn't sound like transphobia, more pointing out the unfairness of the situation (unless OP you were referring to something else?)

I believe OP was being ironic :)

I hope he doesn't feel the need to apologise this time and Spotify needs to understand that most of JR's audience will agree with him.

We're getting to the point where even a GC forum like MN can't even differentiate genuine sarcasm without need for quotemarks or LOLs on ends of sentences.

I'm talking about the tone of many of the articles. I think Joe can talk too much about competitive fighting on his podcasts, but that's really the only negative thing I think about his podcasts, as it gets a bit boring for me. The guy's an ex professional fighter, he knows how dangerous unfair competition is and is vocal about it. He has been saying this for years, long before the vast majority of commentators and athletes, and taken a lot of shit for it.

Yeah, I skip most of his MMA specials as the fight spergery does enough leaking out into the non MMA episodes but some of the interviews with boxers are outstanding. Evander Holyfield talking about growing up in poverty was a proper tear jerker.

I wonder if Joe manages to keep it at work or if he bores his wife and daughters with it, like the legions of middle aged cyclists so many Mumsnetters are married to?

J

I'll be very honest. I have to try very very hard not to bore the fuck out of everyone about my hobby, so I can empathise with Joe's impulse to relate everything back to what he loves. I can only take so much of it though.

I've heard him talk quite a bit about his daughter's passion for gymnastics, so I'm assuming that she gives as good as she gets if he's too boring at home.

After the Auckland shot show he really does need to get KJK on

gender woo must be difficult for a combat sports obsessive, who's been conditioned to believe that it's unthinkable, even laughable, that (e.g.) someone weighing 11st would ever be allowed to compete in a class designed for people weighing 10st or less, and that said weights should be measured by something as unfeeling and un-nuanced as a pair of scales.

I really want him to get Posie on! It's mad that he hasn't yet.

I appreciate Joe because he was one of the first high profile voices to talk about trans in relation to sports, albeit without any understanding of the shit show he would find himself in.

When I first started paying attention to the debate and mentioned it to my DH, he was already well informed due to Joe Rogan’s commentary on Fallon Fox.

I’ve said this before but weirdly, Joe Rogan reminds me of my nan. He has the knack of making people feel comfortable and then asking them everyman questions that the audience themselves would want to ask.

I think on this topic he is where lots of people fall - still recognises personal identities and using a person’s preferred pronouns but doesn’t think for one tiny second that TW are actually W (although MM has moved the needle on that a bit).

Posie could talk to him about surrogacy and porn issues, not just trans stuff. I think she’d be a great guest for him and she’s really getting practised at media appearances now - she did loads in the last couple of days.

As Posie’s NZ trip has brought a bunch of newbies in, here’s a background on JR and transgender topics. Which began in relation to MMA fighter Fallon Fox, who competed as a female fighter, against women (the old fashioned kind) despite being male. Fox fought several times without the opponent being warned in advance that Fox was not female.

Apparently the video of JR’s original comments has been deleted but I found the quote on a sports site, from all the way back in 2013 (!!)

“She calls herself a woman but I tend to disagree. She used to be a man but now she has had, she’s a transgender … And she wants to be able to fight women in MMA. I say no f*ing way. I say if you had a dick at one point in time, you also have all the bone structure that comes with having a dick. You have bigger hands, you have bigger shoulder joints. You’re a fucking man. That’s a man, OK?”

and on Fallon Fox’s Wikipedia page Joe is quoted as saying

“First of all, she's not really a she. She's a transgender, post-op person. The operation doesn't shave down your bone density. It doesn't change. You look at a man's hands and you look at a woman's hands and they're built different. They're just thicker, they're stronger, your wrists are thicker, your elbows are thicker, your joints are thicker. Just the mechanical function of punching, a man can do it much harder than a woman can, period.”

According to wiki his original criticism was directed at the sporting federation for granting Fox a fight licence as a female fighter without even imposing any conditions re: disclosing biological sex to opponents which surely seems perfectly reasonable to anyone who thinks about it for more than a minute?

Here’s a clip of Joe recalling what happened in 2013 5 years later, talking to Dr Debra Soh (author of ‘The End of Gender’)

over 5 million views on that clip - Joe Rogan has made a massive contribution to this debate. So glad he didn’t roll over when The GenderBorg first came for him all those years ago.

since 2013 JR has discussed various aspects of the women’s rights v trans ideology issue in episodes with guests who are directly involved, eg Dr Soh, Meghan Murphy, Colin Wright, Blair White, Buck Angel, that former Navy Seal who is now detransing whose name escapes me and loads of guests who are there to talk about wider or different topics where it’s either partially related (Douglas Murray, James Lindsey & Peter Boghosian, Eddie Izzard before the Suzy era) or where the conversation just meanders towards it, which often results in the interviewee speaking directly about it for the first time (IIRC Glenn Greenwald and it seems like Dr Peter Attia from the op too).