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Original poster

Schools ‘let pupils switch gender without informing parents’ - Policy Exchange Report

158 replies

rogdmum · 30/03/2023 06:10

There’s a raft of coverage in the Times and the Mail today:

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-014418/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-let-pupils-switch-gender-without-informing-parents-pppbphkgq?shareToken=a982976ca8c81a3e9ea0e21ee76f3364" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-014418/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-let-pupils-switch-gender-without-informing-parents-pppbphkgq?shareToken=a982976ca8c81a3e9ea0e21ee76f3364

Half of schools turn to outside agencies for sex education:

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015239/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-schools-turn-to-outside-agencies-for-sex-education-zzqqsmgb0?shareToken=111ada6e40d464c85ba4f6d11703fbd8" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015239/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-schools-turn-to-outside-agencies-for-sex-education-zzqqsmgb0?shareToken=111ada6e40d464c85ba4f6d11703fbd8

The magnificent Rosie Duffield:

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015234/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rosie-duffield-schools-are-failing-in-their-duty-to-protect-gender-distressed-children-9zzsk06j9?shareToken=fbad1f25d0a39dad9cb1bc35292664d7" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015234/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rosie-duffield-schools-are-failing-in-their-duty-to-protect-gender-distressed-children-9zzsk06j9?shareToken=fbad1f25d0a39dad9cb1bc35292664d7

Rosie nails it:

”Iis universally accepted that safeguarding is fundamental to a responsible society. These principles are well-established, enshrined in law, and applicable to all organisations and functions relating to children. There is never a good reason why safeguarding should be compromised, especially within school, where children spend the majority of their time outside of the home environment.”

”The rising number of children reporting gender distress, and the treatment of those children within clinical settings, is rightly being given the attention it deserves. In an NHS-commissioned independent review, Dr Hilary Cass found the Tavistock clinic to be adopting an “unquestioning, affirmative approach” without exploring other factors causing these children’s distress.
Affirmation as a one-size-fits-all solution has been discredited.

Thankfully, the clinic is being shut down. However, Policy Exchange has revealed something even more concerning: the same approach is being facilitated in schools, which breaks every safeguarding rule in the book.”

Welcome to nginx

https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-014418/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-let-pupils-switch-gender-without-informing-parents-pppbphkgq?shareToken=a982976ca8c81a3e9ea0e21ee76f3364

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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ResisterRex · 31/03/2023 13:20

cosmiccosmos · 31/03/2023 12:38

Considering budgets are evidently so squeezed in schools it begs the question as to why they are paying £££ for matériels. There must be some materials somewhere eg on TES that can be used?

It would be excellent if all parents could now request full copies and when it's denied, due to 'commercial sensitivity' the firms are added to a list and schools to stop using those materials immediately. Any school shelling out ££££ to outside providers should have to justify why Ofsted.

I would have liked to see this go further in that all children must be called by their name as registered at the school until this is settled. Teachers should not have to put up with all this name changing and pronouns nonsense. I am really surprised they do it, it must be so stressful.

Incredibly, the ASCL claims it's being done on the cheap:

"The Association of School and College Leaders, which represents headteachers, has criticised Gillian Keegan, the education secretary, for implying that teachers are not providing sex education responsibly.
In her statement announcing a review this morning (see 11.35am), Keegan said she was “deeply concerned” by reports of what was happening in classrooms. Geoff Barton, the ASCL general secretary, said:
It is very disappointing to see education secretary Gillian Keegan’s implicit criticism of schools when she says the review will restore the confidence of parents.
In fact, the vast majority of schools teach this subject cautiously, sensitively and in an age-appropriate manner. Claims made about inappropriate teaching are overblown, sweeping and supported by evidence which is flimsy at best.
Barton also said the government should fund specialist teachers for this topic.
The government has provided very little training support for the teaching of this subject and we sincerely hope the review that is due to take place will make recommendations around providing more and better-resourced training.
This is such a sensitive and difficult subject to navigate that it really requires the provision of specialist teachers, but the government expects it to be taught by existing classroom teachers who are also teaching other subjects. As ever, it expects to deliver major policies on the cheap, and then is quick to criticise schools."

www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/mar/31/rishi-sunak-kemi-badenoch-trade-deal-conservatives-tory-labour-keir-starmer-latest-politics-updates

borntobequiet · 31/03/2023 13:41

There must be some materials somewhere eg on TES that can be used?

There is no quality control on resources available on TES. Some of them are dire.

ResisterRex · 31/03/2023 13:45

I'm sure the government did have some materials online a couple of years ago because I remember reading them. No idea how to find them now though and I don't recall them being worrisome

mirah2 · 31/03/2023 14:55

Datun · 30/03/2023 17:58

After Tania Carter spoke on LBC, there was a woman who just talked a load of bollocks. Trans children are 10 times more likely to commit suicide, etc.

And a drama group teacher who said she wouldn't tell the parents of any children who wanted to identify as the opposite sex because she thinks they need 'breathing space' in a safe environment. The utter cheek of it. Fortunately Shelagh Fogarty said that was a safeguarding risk and she wouldn't let her child anywhere near this woman.

There's this wholesale assumption that every single parent of a child who is gender confused is a raging transphobe.

Actually, they're being told that anyone who disagrees with you is your enemy.

The government must get hold of this. It's a horrible, insidious lose/lose situation. If concerned parents don't want their children going down a path that can lead to irreversible surgery, they are automatically the enemy. And adults who should know better, who should have safeguarding training which tells them this is wrong, are going along with it.

Tanya said there is online influence, and the interviewer assumed she meant social contagion. But it's not just that. It's being told that everyone is against you, including your parents. Look at that fucker Jeffrey Marsh.

It needs to be made an offence not to tell the parents.

Late to the chat, but this just triggered a memory.

Back in the early 2000’s, I was at an all girl's (private) school where someone external gave a one-off RSE lesson instead of our usual teacher. The class covered contraception and early-stage termination - can't remember if this was just the morning after pill or later stage.

What really bothered me about the class was the provider stressing that we could get contraception and the morning after pill while keeping this a secret from our parents. I'm not even sure if we had all reached the age of consent by that point.

I know there are (sadly) situations where going behind the parents' back is the safest option for a child. I would also, naively, hope that those are cases where social services would get involved. But to hear someone telling us openly that we could keep emergency contraception use secret from our parents really didn't sound right. And I wasn't the only girl bothered by this.

I didn't have the language at the time to describe that as a safeguarding risk. But now I wonder if a) it was and b) this was an early version of the attitude now being taken by some about children wanting to change their name/pronouns/gender etc.

ResisterRex · 31/03/2023 20:22

Stonewall commented:

Schools told to show parents what they’re teaching children about sex

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a7f4a70a-cfb1-11ed-9a78-fca06b87e87b?shareToken=ad14e0ab0f95c73fbf849b762619208d

"The right-of-centre think tank Policy Exchange said in a report this week that many secondary schools would not reliably inform parents their child was in “gender distress”.

Stonewall said in response: “The fact that a child or young person is LGBTQ+ is not inherently a safeguarding risk. However, LGBTQ+ children are at risk of being targeted at school, including by other children. Having a trusted adult at school who they know they can talk to plays an important part in reducing that risk of harm. All of this is clearly set out in the government’s statutory guidance on keeping children safe in education, which we completely support.

“If LGBTQ+ children are to have the same opportunity to thrive as any other child, it is essential that they have the space to speak out and share their concerns, and that school staff have the tools they need to support them with confidence.”"

Keeping Children Safe in Education does not include the Q+

Original poster
rogdmum · 31/03/2023 20:50

OK, let’s go with LGBTQ+ pupils needing a trusted adult they can speak to at school because they are at risk of being targeted at school.

Why does that preclude telling parents about a child’s gender distress. 🤔

(I know, I know. Yes, I know the answer, but on the face of it, the Stonewall response does not match the described issue of schools keeping secrets from parents)

OP posts:
ValancyRedfern · 01/04/2023 12:34

Matt Hood CEO of Oak tweeting in 2019 saying parents could just home school if they don't like RSE, and defending Andrew Moffatt, who consistently re-writes the protected characteristics to omit sex, by saying you can't 'pick and choose protected characteristics. Which is exactly what Andrew Moffat does. This is a stitch up from the start.

Schools ‘let pupils switch gender without informing parents’ - Policy Exchange Report
MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/04/2023 14:40

ValancyRedfern · 01/04/2023 12:34

Matt Hood CEO of Oak tweeting in 2019 saying parents could just home school if they don't like RSE, and defending Andrew Moffatt, who consistently re-writes the protected characteristics to omit sex, by saying you can't 'pick and choose protected characteristics. Which is exactly what Andrew Moffat does. This is a stitch up from the start.

FFs. Even in the face of the clearest evidence of dodgy doings, this government can't find anyone not captured by gender woowoo to chair this - defending the indefensible Andrew Moffatt fgs.
Off to write to my tory MP.

Leafstamp · 01/04/2023 21:18

Just bumping this thread and saying thank you to those sharing useful information.

I'll also be writing to my MP.

batterypark · 02/04/2023 00:04

My autistic daughter is 21 now. Back when she was 14 this happened to her at high school. I was informed of the new name and pronouns by a teacher.

Leafstamp · 02/04/2023 08:56

batterypark · 02/04/2023 00:04

My autistic daughter is 21 now. Back when she was 14 this happened to her at high school. I was informed of the new name and pronouns by a teacher.

May I ask if is you felt about being informed rather than consulted with?

Also, if you don’t mind sharing, is your child still using that name? Still with a trans identity?

MrsMurphyIWish · 02/04/2023 10:20

I’m a secondary school teacher and have and continue to teach transitioning students and gender-free pupils. Some pupils are transitioning without parental knowledge. I have raised this with the pastoral team but the current guidance is to do what is best for the child - that’s how vague it is! What affects me more on a day to day basis os that said students get riled up if I accidentally refer to them using the wrong pronoun. I also have to be very careful during report writing and parents evening that I use the birth name to parents. I feel complicit in this but it’s just allowed. Interestingly, all the transitioning pupils are girls. No one very comes out as lesbian anymore. Is it “easier” to be trans than lesbian?

ValancyRedfern · 02/04/2023 10:22

For a teenage girl. Yes.

ResisterRex · 02/04/2023 10:23

When you think you've read it all and can't be shocked:

twitter.com/famedtrust/status/1642454531215708161?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

MrsOvertonsWindow · 02/04/2023 10:25

MrsMurphyIWish · 02/04/2023 10:20

I’m a secondary school teacher and have and continue to teach transitioning students and gender-free pupils. Some pupils are transitioning without parental knowledge. I have raised this with the pastoral team but the current guidance is to do what is best for the child - that’s how vague it is! What affects me more on a day to day basis os that said students get riled up if I accidentally refer to them using the wrong pronoun. I also have to be very careful during report writing and parents evening that I use the birth name to parents. I feel complicit in this but it’s just allowed. Interestingly, all the transitioning pupils are girls. No one very comes out as lesbian anymore. Is it “easier” to be trans than lesbian?

There's a lot of evidence about this now - "transing away the gay" with children believing being trans gives them a kudos and attention that being lesbian /gay doesn't.
Your school sounds dangerous safeguarding wise if they're keeping this from so many parents. Maybe send a copy of this from the Times to the Head?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eaf16a74-ce5e-11ed-9a78-fca06b87e87b?shareToken=5f2a3411ceaa26296443420f9de2987f

ValancyRedfern · 02/04/2023 10:32

ResisterRex · 02/04/2023 10:23

When you think you've read it all and can't be shocked:

twitter.com/famedtrust/status/1642454531215708161?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

I teach in a Catholic school and our rse is very tame, but even with ours, I had to ask the class to think about what their vision for the future sex life was. The kids looked appalled and one stated. 'How should I know I'm only 15!'. Well quite!

(The drift of the lesson was that they should choose not to use artificial contraception, which is a whole different angle of bonkers, but that's for another thread).

MrsMurphyIWish · 02/04/2023 10:37

MrsOvertonsWindow · 02/04/2023 10:25

There's a lot of evidence about this now - "transing away the gay" with children believing being trans gives them a kudos and attention that being lesbian /gay doesn't.
Your school sounds dangerous safeguarding wise if they're keeping this from so many parents. Maybe send a copy of this from the Times to the Head?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eaf16a74-ce5e-11ed-9a78-fca06b87e87b?shareToken=5f2a3411ceaa26296443420f9de2987f

Show quote history

A while ago some mumsnetters referred me to some articles which I sent to the pastoral team but the response I had was the Dfe’s guidance is to do what is best for the child. I actually feel like I’m the odd one for raising concerns! Unless the Dfe states categorically that parents will be made aware of transitioning (and not “we recommend”), then there will be schools like mine who will cave in.

cosmiccosmos · 02/04/2023 10:46

I don't want to push more on teachers but all it takes is for each teacher to stand up and say they will only use name as per the register and will adhere to standard pronouns ie she for female.

At my child's primary if you stood by and let someone say unkind things or bully then you were complicit. Teachers standing by and doing this are complicit.

Who says it's 'best for the child' to hide this from the parents. What else are you going to hide? If children are told that they cannot change their name, pronouns and uniform then they have a clear boundary. How are children buying their own uniform? I thought it was pretty much unisex now anyway?

What's happening here is that children are running the show. Schools need to stop pandering and get some rules in place. I have a friend who is a teacher who is retiring this year, a key reason is the behaviour of students. Someone needs to start being 'the parent'.

twelly · 02/04/2023 10:49

It is just appalling that schools have been taking this approach. Safeguarding has been used in my view incorrectly. I am appalled by some of those in the teaching profession who have activity encouraged this approach

MrsMurphyIWish · 02/04/2023 10:54

I agree but this is the response I get as this is what the Dfe guidance is currently:

It states than in accordance with the human rights act, schools should “normally work”, with the agreement of parents, “towards respecting the wishes of pupils to be the people they wish to be”.

”should” isn’t “you must”, “normally”‘isn’t “always”.

And that’s why we are where we are.

MrsMurphyIWish · 02/04/2023 10:56

cosmiccosmos · 02/04/2023 10:46

I don't want to push more on teachers but all it takes is for each teacher to stand up and say they will only use name as per the register and will adhere to standard pronouns ie she for female.

At my child's primary if you stood by and let someone say unkind things or bully then you were complicit. Teachers standing by and doing this are complicit.

Who says it's 'best for the child' to hide this from the parents. What else are you going to hide? If children are told that they cannot change their name, pronouns and uniform then they have a clear boundary. How are children buying their own uniform? I thought it was pretty much unisex now anyway?

What's happening here is that children are running the show. Schools need to stop pandering and get some rules in place. I have a friend who is a teacher who is retiring this year, a key reason is the behaviour of students. Someone needs to start being 'the parent'.

I have tried. We are reprimanded for accidentally using the incorrect pronoun … child goes to pastoral, pastoral send whole school emails reminding us … God knows that would happen if I actively started using just birth names. Most likely sacked.

Clymene · 02/04/2023 10:59

MrsMurphyIWish · 02/04/2023 10:54

I agree but this is the response I get as this is what the Dfe guidance is currently:

It states than in accordance with the human rights act, schools should “normally work”, with the agreement of parents, “towards respecting the wishes of pupils to be the people they wish to be”.

”should” isn’t “you must”, “normally”‘isn’t “always”.

And that’s why we are where we are.

'With the agreement of the parents' though. Not 'without the knowledge of the parents'.

I'm not having a go at you but I'm appalled that schools are socially transitioning children without their parents' knowledge or consent.

MrsMurphyIWish · 02/04/2023 11:01

But it’s “should”, which means it doesn’t have to happen. It’s just a recommendation. Like when it was covid and dfe said all classrooms should be ventilated, have air filtration units, social distancing … “should”, but didn’t happen.

MrsMurphyIWish · 02/04/2023 11:05

FWIW, I want all parents to be aware. I don’t want to be complicit with transitioning.