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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Schools ‘let pupils switch gender without informing parents’ - Policy Exchange Report

158 replies

rogdmum · 30/03/2023 06:10

There’s a raft of coverage in the Times and the Mail today:

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-014418/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-let-pupils-switch-gender-without-informing-parents-pppbphkgq?shareToken=a982976ca8c81a3e9ea0e21ee76f3364" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-014418/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-let-pupils-switch-gender-without-informing-parents-pppbphkgq?shareToken=a982976ca8c81a3e9ea0e21ee76f3364

Half of schools turn to outside agencies for sex education:

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015239/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-schools-turn-to-outside-agencies-for-sex-education-zzqqsmgb0?shareToken=111ada6e40d464c85ba4f6d11703fbd8" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015239/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-schools-turn-to-outside-agencies-for-sex-education-zzqqsmgb0?shareToken=111ada6e40d464c85ba4f6d11703fbd8

The magnificent Rosie Duffield:

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015234/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rosie-duffield-schools-are-failing-in-their-duty-to-protect-gender-distressed-children-9zzsk06j9?shareToken=fbad1f25d0a39dad9cb1bc35292664d7" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-015234/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rosie-duffield-schools-are-failing-in-their-duty-to-protect-gender-distressed-children-9zzsk06j9?shareToken=fbad1f25d0a39dad9cb1bc35292664d7

Rosie nails it:

”Iis universally accepted that safeguarding is fundamental to a responsible society. These principles are well-established, enshrined in law, and applicable to all organisations and functions relating to children. There is never a good reason why safeguarding should be compromised, especially within school, where children spend the majority of their time outside of the home environment.”

”The rising number of children reporting gender distress, and the treatment of those children within clinical settings, is rightly being given the attention it deserves. In an NHS-commissioned independent review, Dr Hilary Cass found the Tavistock clinic to be adopting an “unquestioning, affirmative approach” without exploring other factors causing these children’s distress.
Affirmation as a one-size-fits-all solution has been discredited.

Thankfully, the clinic is being shut down. However, Policy Exchange has revealed something even more concerning: the same approach is being facilitated in schools, which breaks every safeguarding rule in the book.”

Welcome to nginx

https://archive.ph/2023.03.30-014418/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-let-pupils-switch-gender-without-informing-parents-pppbphkgq?shareToken=a982976ca8c81a3e9ea0e21ee76f3364

OP posts:
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Faffertea · 30/03/2023 10:17

I see in the Times report that, although GIDS referrals decreased a little in 2021 (perhaps related to the pandemic) they have risen again in 2022 in line with the continuing increase. I find that very depressing as I think, in other countries like Sweden, it appeared to be dropping off. The UK, despite being TERF island, is very heavily captured.

Healthcare staff (largely GPs) are really in a bind over this. We cannot refuse to refer patients where the accepted NHS pathway for children or adults presenting with gender dysphoria is to refer the to GIC however much we disagree with the current medical model.

I find it incredibly hard to have to refer on to a service I believe is harming CYP and I can’t think of another scenario in which I feel like this. All I can do is support my patients, gently encourage them to think about how and why they feel like they do (and encourage their family or careers to do the same) and hope that by the time they’re seen the situation will have resolved.

Datun · 30/03/2023 10:25

I'm listening to Miriam Cates and the woman from the policy exchange report being asked questions over what gender distress is. And them replying about these numerous children thinking that they are the opposite sex. And how that should not be affirmed in school without parents' knowledge. Because maybe parents don't want their daughters to bind their breasts, or have boys present in their changing rooms, or for them to be thinking about puberty blockers, etc.

And the question that everyone will be asking is why?

Why are all these children thinking this?

And then you read the bloody genderbread nonsense. And the gender identity 'spectrum' from GI Joe to Cinderella.

It's really frustrating to watching the government jump up and down trying to stop the effects of the training that they, themselves, sanctioned, and is still being taught!

lifeturnsonadime · 30/03/2023 10:25

LizzieSiddal · 30/03/2023 09:13

Didn't he interim Cass report say that affirming in schools should stop?

Is anyone actually paying attention to Cass? And I’m including this goverment in that.

This is what i was going to ask.

What is the point of the Cass Review if schools are going to ignore it?

Why wasn't this shared with schools? Especially the key point that social transition is not a neutral act?

I can't believe that, after the Cass report, this is still going on in schools.

2fallsfromSSA · 30/03/2023 10:33

It should have done, but I am not sure it did or if it did, I am not sure what the message was that went alongside it.

The issue is we are relying on the DfE to do this and as we know, there is widespread regulatory capture.

FusionChefGeoff · 30/03/2023 10:36

TerfTerf · 30/03/2023 07:48

Excellent coverage!
My only criticism of the Times piece is this - and it will be the bit that gets the be-kind folk up in arms. Of course children should be allowed to do traditionally opposite-sex sports! Just not 'with' the opposite sex (assuming rugby, hockey, lacrosse, etc). The Times not thinking about connotations again 🙄

That bit made me do a double take too - as a mum of a keen female cricketer and rugby player!!

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/03/2023 10:37

drhf · 30/03/2023 07:46

Yes, the ACSL is blaming a lack of government guidance, but according to the report 25% of schools are breaching the guidance that does exist by teaching that children are born in the wrong body.

And how has this happened when safeguarding failures mean an automatic Ofsted grade of Inadequate? Do both schools and Ofsted consider government guidance to be optional on this subject?

When the Secretary of State for Education can't define "Girl" and the police target those who speak biological reality, how can the guidance be clear?

Six years of TWAW ministers of Education has destroyed schools for our children.

FusionChefGeoff · 30/03/2023 10:38

Lots of Labour politicians point scoring on the radio today all focussing on 'the Gov. needs to sort out the guidance' rather than 'schools need to follow the guidance' or even (ha ha) 'this is what happens when lobby groups have such unquestionable power and influence and we need to stop this now'

FusionChefGeoff · 30/03/2023 10:41

Faffertea · 30/03/2023 10:17

I see in the Times report that, although GIDS referrals decreased a little in 2021 (perhaps related to the pandemic) they have risen again in 2022 in line with the continuing increase. I find that very depressing as I think, in other countries like Sweden, it appeared to be dropping off. The UK, despite being TERF island, is very heavily captured.

Healthcare staff (largely GPs) are really in a bind over this. We cannot refuse to refer patients where the accepted NHS pathway for children or adults presenting with gender dysphoria is to refer the to GIC however much we disagree with the current medical model.

I find it incredibly hard to have to refer on to a service I believe is harming CYP and I can’t think of another scenario in which I feel like this. All I can do is support my patients, gently encourage them to think about how and why they feel like they do (and encourage their family or careers to do the same) and hope that by the time they’re seen the situation will have resolved.

An unexpected bonus of the NHS collapsing around us and waiting lists of 2 + years - we're looking at 'watchful waiting' (that doesn't quite sound like the right phrase but you know what I mean) by stealth Grin

Boiledbeetle · 30/03/2023 10:51

rogdmum · 30/03/2023 07:50

I’m feeling both weepy and ill on the back of this. We (Mumsnetters, SSA, TT etc) have been shouting about this for years and have either been brushed off or dismissed as transphobic.

There is an external investigation currently being carried out into my daughter’s former school about my concerns around the breakdown in safeguarding wrt this issue. Being in Scotland I have little hope of our concerns being upheld, but if DfE wakes up and recognises the harm being done, eventually it will trickle down to Scotland as well.

Stay strong. You've personally done so much and fought for so long it must be exhausting. But without women like you really pushing for answers on these things and putting yourself and your story into the msm we wouldn't be as far forward as we are.

As is often said about the shit parts of childhood...this to shall pass.

It will be over one day. Sanity will prevail!

🍷

IcakethereforeIam · 30/03/2023 11:27

Has Keegan said anything?

ResisterRex · 30/03/2023 11:31

2fallsfromSSA · 30/03/2023 10:33

It should have done, but I am not sure it did or if it did, I am not sure what the message was that went alongside it.

The issue is we are relying on the DfE to do this and as we know, there is widespread regulatory capture.

On this, the report has a solid potted history of how we got here. I can't see any comment from Stonewall or Mermaids. Not checked all the others names there though just yet.

Leafstamp · 30/03/2023 11:52

I'm so angry with schools for getting this so wrong. Yes, they have been let down by government but regardless they have shown themselves to be gullible and spineless and with inadequate critical thinking skills and safeguarding knowledge.

fiendishdragon · 30/03/2023 12:23

Our school's safeguarding officer said to us:

[Under the guidance we're following] "Normal safeguarding rules do not apply to transgender students."

It's an absolute trainwreck.

Schools are teaching children that some girls have a penis.
Schools are putting male and female children in the same changing rooms/dormitories.

So when a male teenager undresses, and a teenage girl objects, is this

  • indecent exposure?
  • a transphobic hate incident/bullying?

I don't understand how anyone is advocating for this - it's clearly a disaster for all the children, including and especially those who identify as trans. A total failure to think about consequences. How can schools not see the immense danger for children, and the legal risks to the schools?

rogdmum · 30/03/2023 12:27

Thanks Boiledbeetle I have had a cup of coffee and am feeling better now. 😁

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 30/03/2023 12:30

Thanks for all the links, rogdmum. Amazing to see this front page news.

ResisterRex · 30/03/2023 12:35

Haven't seen anyone line up to call the Policy Exchange's findings into question. Have I missed it? It also feels like the quotes from those essentially being criticised are much less defensive than when Cates published her report.

ResisterRex · 30/03/2023 12:41

Also in the Telegraph:

digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1293/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/1293/pub/1293/page/5/article/NaN

"A DfE spokesman said: “Our priority will always be the safety and wellbeing of children and young people. The Education Secretary is working closely with the Minister for Women and Equalities to produce guidance for schools which we will be consulting on shortly.

“In the meantime, we are clear that schools should make sure they work with parents, pupils and public services to decide what is best for individual children.”"

IcakethereforeIam · 30/03/2023 12:54
30 rock made by moi GIF

The Education Secretary is working closely with the Minister for Women and Equalities to produce guidance for schools which we will be consulting on shortly.

Why do have a picture of Kemi marching to Keegan's office and kicking the fucking door down.

2fallsfromSSA · 30/03/2023 13:17

@fiendishdragon that is so shocking to see it written it down like that. We know that it is true but to see it so blatantly is horrific.

ResisterRex · 30/03/2023 13:37

Times story has been updated to include comments from the PM:

Schools ‘let pupils switch gender without informing parents’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eaf16a74-ce5e-11ed-9a78-fca06b87e87b?shareToken=b846aee24749f196f412ba733dedc64a

"Rishi Sunak has said that he is “very concerned” that schools are routinely allowing children to switch gender without telling parents.
...

Speaking during a visit to the UK Atomic Energy Authority in Oxfordshire, he said: “I’m very concerned about these reports.

“For me the safety and wellbeing of our children is of paramount importance. And I’ve also been clear that parents must be able to know what is being taught to their kids in school, especially on these sensitive areas.

“That’s why we’re already reviewing the RSE [relationship and sex education] guidance to make sure that it is age appropriate for children.”

He added: “But also what I’m also going to say today is that for the summer term, we will make sure that we publish guidance for schools so that they know how to respond when children are asking about their gender.

“These are really sensitive areas, it’s important that we treat them sensitively, and that parents know what’s going on, and we’ll make sure that that happens.”"

2fallsfromSSA · 30/03/2023 13:38

Tanya will be on LBC at 2pm talking about this.

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 30/03/2023 13:40

Flying question, but does anyone know how the BBC reported this?

I was listening to Times Radio on way in this morning so caught Grant Shapps being questioned on it, but haven't seen anything on BBC and it's not obviously up on their front news page now.........

LizzieSiddal · 30/03/2023 13:41

@ResisterRex He added: “But also what I’m also going to say today is that for the summer term, we will make sure that we publish guidance for schools so that they know how to respond when children are asking about their gender.

Well “guidance” could be a positive step. It will all depends on who is being consulted to make this guidance. I hope the Cass report is being used.

IcakethereforeIam · 30/03/2023 13:45

I concerned about schools permitting transitioning of children even with their parents knowledge and support. If a parent affirmed their daughter's belief she was fat, would the school agree to starve her? Then there's the welfare of all the other children in the school to consider.

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/03/2023 13:51

I don't trust Women and Equalities to help with any of this. It's chaired by Caroline Nokes and has Jamie Wallis sitting on it.