Trans woman threatened with physical violence by 'TERF'

[wontbesilencedbyyou]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11868077/SF-woman-threatens-punch-transgender-TikTok-star-expletive-filled-tirade-caught-video.html#reader-comments

Sharing this here as I feel it's important to see both sides on a forum like this, where there are many articles shared about scenes getting nasty at protests, and I haven't seen anything about it yet. Lilly was accosted whilst literally just eating a salad and live streaming.

My opinion: It's sad, and makes me fearful for the future.

After a weekend where an elderly woman had her eye blacked, another woman had a broken foot and the NZ police told KJK they seriously thought the crowd were going to kill her, don't you think this is in bloody awful taste?

Two people had a spat.

No one in this case screamed about 'kerb stomping' or 'rape' or 'die in a grease fire', no one was punched, no one surrounded by a screaming, insane lynch mob of activists. A spat is not 'oh look women are are horribly behaved and violent as activists too'. Sorry, you're out of luck there. The optics are fucking awful for activists this week and they deserve it all.

And I mean activists. That is the group I am talking about, many of whom are not TQ+.

Quite. It’s indicative of just how rarely women have a go at men that this milquetoast example of minor rudeness is the best anyone can come up with to counter the actual fucking epidemic of male on female violence and intimidation widely on show.

Is what this woman did right? No.
Is it in any way comparable to what women trying to speak up for their rights were exposed to this past weekend? Also no.

Going up to strangers who are minding their own business and insulting them is never OK, regardless of how they dress.

But if women were on the news every time a judgey stranger insulted us we’d have channels and channels of the stuff 24/7!

exactly. Amazing that the victim here is a "tiktok star" hahahaha. Not getting enough views so uploading this? whatever.

No actual harm was done, except for some hurty feels about being called "he".

But this kind of scene is never necessary. So there we have it.

Assaults on me by men because I'm a woman:
Been pushed over walking down the street
Physically assaulted on the tube
Raped
Sexually assaulted multiple times
Harangued/harassed multiple times
'Flashed'

None of these made the news. Only two were reported and nothing happened to the perpetrators. And I'm not unusual - millions and millions of women have similar tales.

Both sides? The only reason this story is being reported on is because it's rarer than hen's teeth.

Of course it's wrong to start haranguing someone in a restaurant and I'm sorry it happened to that tiktokker.

That said, one of my utter bewilderments around this whole issue has been 'why TF would someone ever want to identify into trauma and misogyny?' Like, if every woman who had ever been annoyed in a restaurant recorded it, the internet would be full.

We're gonna need a bigger internet...

The woman reminded me of those people who strike up a conversation on the tube and you feel on edge because you don’t know what way it’s heading. They are clearly unwell with addiction issues or something else so you just look down and wait for them to go.

The sort of person who sees a black man and says “Oh yeah - you look Jamaican- Raaaastafaari- Bob Marley - yeah - what’s that song? Uh - one minute [starts singing] nooo wooomaan noo craa iiiy”.

You have no idea what they’ll pick up on “you’ve got a suitcase- what are you doing? Jetting around the world? Ha! You look like you make money. MONEY! [eyeing all the passengers] Don’t you think she looks like she’s rich? Ha!”.

They are unpredictable and make you nervous. I know there is a trend for filming/live-streaming these incidents, but I generally don’t watch that kind of thing. I need to navigate the world by myself and see enough with my own eyes.

Something I have found though, I was sad to discover, is often these people are adults who were abused children, went through the care system and it led to a life of addiction, chaos, domestic violence, etc as adults and they’ve never been able to get their shit together.

So regarding this OP, I am afraid I don’t really care. It is lacking in importance in the bigger scheme of things.

I’m going to try my hardest to care about this almost as much as TRAs care about a grown man hitting a 70year old woman in the face.

I'd wager that you've had it explained to you many times that most GC women are not 'against transwomen'.

We just think that they are not women, that they offend to the same pattern as men, and that they should respect women's and girls' boundaries and stay out of single-sex female spaces, women's sports and women's prisons. If they perv on us, we don't like it. If they insist that they are lesbians and get shitty with lesbians, we don't like it. If they assault women, we don't like it.

In this case, I'm sorry this person had their meal interrupted. It wasn't an assault, it was the sort of annoying aggro plenty of us have dealt with. Nothing on a par with having you eye blacked by a thug in a park in NZ.

Being accosted by someone who is clearly not well in public is a bit different from facing a baying mob. It’s not acceptable for anyone to be treated like that but it’s not the other side is is? This isn’t an example of how GC feminists behave towards transpeople it’s an example of how crazy people behave towards everyone.

Unfortunately you won't be able to show both sides here, as the majority of MN's are against trans women.

sigh. Stop it. Trans women aren't the issue here and everyone knows it. The problem is that so many people want Self ID they can't /won't acknowledge the absolute scumbags who will use it to terrorise women.

We could, of course, throw this in the scales. Old lady haranguing trans woman. / Groped/raped/assaulted/shouted at on the tube. Is that the weighting?

Old lady haranguing trans woman / wolf whistling followed by "wouldn't fuck you anyway you fat slag"

because I am going to wager my next salary on: if we weighted up all the Trans Harangued Incidents against Incidents Against Women the scales would be heavily tilted to one side. The incidents against women side

Nice to see that TERF can be used as a slur. Thanks @mnhq!

But women aren't demanding trans women give us their rights. Women aren't demanding to go into trans women's spaces. The reverse is, however, true - trans women are demanding that women allow them into their spaces. That's the point.

Hi Florissante,
If you read the article you will see that the woman in question identified herself as a "TERF" and we feel that the quotes around the term in the subject line reflect that. We don't have a list of banned words on MN, instead we keep a careful eye on context. We hope that helps you to understand our position.

The woman was definitely rude to the trans woman.
I would like to have seen the entire interaction, it might have answered why the woman felt the need to assert that she was not a witch, but from what was posted the woman was rude to the trans woman.

'You're a boy, right? Don't f with me 'cause honestly, I hit. I hit hard,' the woman told Contino.*

Is this the physical threat being discussed? Or was there something else?

This. Although transwomen offend (in terms of sexual offences) at about 5x the rate of men, so 500x the rate of women. So even more reason to keep them out of single sex spaces than other men. (from the census data - https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/what-did-we-learn-from-the-census/)

This is simply very very small beer compared to what women are subjected to daily.

You wanted to be a woman, welcome to being one. Random people feeling they can comment on you and your life, speak to you, interrupt whatever you're doing and be hateful whenever they want.

Thank you, genuinely. I appreciate the explanation.

We’ve talked about how there’s going to be a backlash for a long time. Mainly from a concern that it’s going to hit LGB people, but also how a lot of trans people are worried about it.

The backlash from the actions of people pushing #nodebate is not the responsibility of the people that want the debate.

Don’t blame us for the backlash. It’s not something we want. It’s not our fault.

“Assaulted”???

A drunk 70yo woman of colour called them a boy, said “don’t fuck with me” and “I hit hard” and this is news? ”Threatened violence” is a bit of a stretch.

No, this is a weird random person rudely interrupting a conveniently filmed lunch. And then parlayed into massive media exposure.

The woman was rude. The management apologised. Lily’s very effectively making themselves into a media presence.

Any woman can sympathise with Lilly being insulted while just trying to (insert normal daily activity here).

I won't presume Lilly's sexuality, but I do think many TW are shocked by the hate they get once they are no longer straight white men. Because they just never were on the receiving end of threats/insults/violence on the basis of who they fundamentally are. And it's a radical change in perspective.

And all the black/female/gay/Asian, etc onlookers are like: yeah. Well. That's just what happens. Pretty routine. Unacceptable, yet widely accepted.

look when words are literal violence and a request for trans women not to use the single sex spaces allocated to women is genocide, of course this is an assault.

It's interesting, isn't it, how no one on here is saying the rude woman was in the right, or gloating about this person having his meal ruined. Compare that to the utter glee shown by TRAs about KJK having soup poured over her, and the arguments that it wasn't assault because it could have been acid but wasn't. Thing is, the vast majority on the gender critical side aren't in favour of violence, no matter how much they might disagree with someone.
I think most of us have enough faith in our arguments that we don't feel the need to punch someone to get them to shut up.