Starmer rowing back on self ID - what do we think?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

The Times is reporting in its live politics feed that KS has explicitly said Labour will not push for self ID without public backing. I know not everyone can access their content so here is a copied n pasted version: what do you think?

Sir Keir Starmer has shifted Labour’s position on transgender rights as he said the bitter rows over Scotland’s Gender Recognition Bill showed the party must consider public opinion on the issue.The leader of the Labour Party has previously insisted it was committed to updating the Gender Recognition Act to introduce self-identification for transgender people.However, in a significant shift in Labour’s policy, he said the backlash over the SNP’s gender reform bill had made him think again. The SNP passed legislation this year that would make it significantly easier for people to acquire a gender recognition certificate and reduced the minimum age for doing so to 16. The bill was blocked by the UK government.Starmer said: “I think that if we reflect on what’s happened in Scotland, the lesson I take from that is that if you’re going to make reforms, you have to carry the public with you.

“And I think that’s a very important message and I think that’s why it’s clear that in Scotland, there should be a reset of the situation.”

Yes, that's how politics works. The party says I will/wont do x. I choose who to vote for on the exact premise that they will or wont reform or entirely disappear the GRA. It's my only issue to vote on. I'm going to vote for the party that says what I want to hear.

Just spoke on this on Today, on the section reading out the papers. Linked from Athletics saying TW can’t compete in female category to Starmer being told by ‘senior Labour source’ that if he is still being asked what a woman is by the time the campaign for the election really gets under way, then he will lose.

https://news.sky.com/story/keir-starmer-will-lose-election-campaign-on-day-one-over-his-trans-rights-position-labour-strategists-warn-12841099

I saw that too. The Tories have lots of receipts though if labour backtrack

Apologies. Just realised that link already posted

Yes Labour have a tendency to insult voters who are not die hard and wedded to Labour. You see the same messages come out on here.

It’s not a good tactic

Oh wow, a politician that gives a hoot about what the public think and is happy to reconsider.

Much better news than Boris trying to convince us for years that we are so stupid we don’t know how to identify a party in the middle of lockdown.

So what’s your solution then, @EpicChaos ? If you want to laugh and mock at women who want to do the hard ( and as you’ve proved by your scorn, thankless) work of trying to change the position of the Labour Party, what’s your alternative solution? To sincerely pray every night that the Conservatives stay in power forever?

We can all do long critiques of any party’s position on anything. The work of putting forward a strategy to change a party’s position or to achieve the political goals one wants, is much harder. And I note that was absent from your long post of rebuffs and laughter at others.

Under self Id, when women are anyone who says they are, including very wealthy men, not so wealthy men, poor men, how will you define which women need help?

So stats will show that women are generally better off, many times fewer women require help with heating, most women get a GP appointment same day, and women are calling fewer ambulances (or not, i don't have any idea which sex requires more ambulances)
They will show all this and more because men are included too. Absolutely everything relating to women will be diluted because instead of 51%women in the country, it'll be 65%. 70% who knows.

You vote however you feel best, I'll vote how I feel best. Neither of us is wrong, you have your line in the sand, I have mine.
Mine isnt just no self id, I would have been happy with that once upon a time, now I'll start with no self id, but I will campaign as long as it takes to get single sex spaces enshrined in law, unassailable, defined, uncorruptable.

I don't mind Keir Starmer u turning on his previous stance on trans rights, it means I will vote Labour. I think politicians changing their policies to reflect public opinion is healthy for democracy.

Gender ideology is a world wide movement.

Are you honestly saying that if Labour had been in power in the past ten years they would NOT have introduced self ID?

Do you honestly think that’s a believable position?

I’d agree- if there was any evidence that he has. But he isn’t even pretending to have done so. He’s just making some vague commitment to build public support before self-ID is introduced.

I respect anyone choosing to vote Labour for other reasons, but please don’t kid yourself that they aren’t still pro-self ID. Only yesterday, their Justice Minister was calling Isla Bryson a woman and defending Scottish Labour’s role in passing the GRR Bill. They have not changed their minds.

Practically decriminalised rape and sexual assault.

Genuine question (I’ve seen this claim a lot and unable to find an answer) but under the last Labour Government did rape have a high report and conviction rate or something? My memory is that rape convictions (on those that get to court) have always been shockingly low. But I’ve probably missed something. What did Labour do differently to get much better results? What did the Tories do to decriminalise rape?

Self ID means more women are exposed to the risk of rape, sexual assault, indecent exposure and voyeurism.

Labour might make noises about punishing men who do, but if they bring in self ID they are still exposing more women to sexual offenses from men.

I think we need to capitalize on any chunk that means we can try to change Labour’s position.

And when you push them, they finally admit that they think the harm to those females is worth it to serve the better interests of this group of males. As one twat said here on the forum, those life destroying injuries, mental and physical, to females, 'serve the greater good'.

It's sociopathic. Someone who sees this harm to females as some kind of justifiable price owed by those born with the sin of Eve can go and run some kind of weird fundamentalist church and stay out of bloody politics.

Incidentally, a rapist male attacking and using the body of a female is not 'serving society' or doing anything more valuable or serious than temporarily creating a happy penis for that individual male.

The lofty bullshit is worthy of Barnum.

I think I would consider voting for Labour at the next GE but they would need to be much less vague about what they intend to do (or not) in relation to the GRA.

Also they would need to stop banning the Labour Women’s Declaration from conferences and start engaging with the likes of Rosie Duffield in a more positive way.

The other thing I would like to hear about is their policies around schools and how to prevent ideological indoctrination of children.

Also health care they would have to commit to taking the recommendations in the Cass report seriously and not just binning it because it was carried out under the Tories.

They just need to be a whole lot more specific really. But they’ve got the time (if not the inclination)

This is for anyone inclined to trust their reverse ferreting. The last one was yesterday.

@TooBigForMyBoots

It really isn't too much to expect the leader of the Labour Party to state that men can't be and never are women. It's the truth.

If he can't tell the truth about this and put women's rights first then he won't get my vote.

I don't care what the Tories are doing. This is on the Labour Party.

Stop trying to convince women that the Labour Party are worthy of a vote while they are prepared to lie about what women are and while they are prepared to call double rapists 'She'.

FFS they are a laughing stock.

All to appease the penis people.

What does take the public with you actually mean anyway?

He doesn’t want a repeat of Sturgeon happening so it could easily be I want to do the same but not with same bomb going off in my political career

According to Sky, strategists told them in 2021 that they needed to change course or "lose the election on day one":

news.sky.com/story/keir-starmer-will-lose-election-campaign-on-day-one-over-his-trans-rights-position-labour-strategists-warn-12841099

Why then, did we see this?

twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549

And this?:

twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1582797649446850560

I absolutely do not trust him or the rest of them on this issue.

“Babies have no sex at birth” is my favourite, in a strong field.

I’ve delivered quite a few babies. It’s so awkward when I forget my sorting hat though.

Omg this is new to me

I am even more amazed at their idiocy

Love some of the questions but they’re toast. They can’t answer simply to any of them.

Sorting hat!!

They're mixing up sex and gender again, aren't they?

Babies have no gender at birth. Absolutely nothing is assigned at birth.