Starmer rowing back on self ID - what do we think?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

The Times is reporting in its live politics feed that KS has explicitly said Labour will not push for self ID without public backing. I know not everyone can access their content so here is a copied n pasted version: what do you think?

Sir Keir Starmer has shifted Labour’s position on transgender rights as he said the bitter rows over Scotland’s Gender Recognition Bill showed the party must consider public opinion on the issue.The leader of the Labour Party has previously insisted it was committed to updating the Gender Recognition Act to introduce self-identification for transgender people.However, in a significant shift in Labour’s policy, he said the backlash over the SNP’s gender reform bill had made him think again. The SNP passed legislation this year that would make it significantly easier for people to acquire a gender recognition certificate and reduced the minimum age for doing so to 16. The bill was blocked by the UK government.Starmer said: “I think that if we reflect on what’s happened in Scotland, the lesson I take from that is that if you’re going to make reforms, you have to carry the public with you.

“And I think that’s a very important message and I think that’s why it’s clear that in Scotland, there should be a reset of the situation.”

I am shooketh, I tell you, shooketh. Imagine Keir Starmer being a lying liar.

So presumably “not a priority for Labour” just means “not in the first year”.

It just means we’d rather women not notice but yeh we’re still doing it

Oh I know
(But I still think 18 months is a long time in politics.)

labour still haven’t got out of their bubble then. This will come up again & again during the election mostly because the likes of the Mail & the Telegraph & (some of the) BBC will ask about it again & again. They will look like utter clowns.

Lord! What fools these mortals be

On the plus side, this tweet clearly puts the topic back on the table and Keir will not be able to justify avoiding it when Posie is all over his constituency (and the news cycle).

I’m like you - really struggling to give up hope on Labour completely, no matter how tiny and tiny the speck of hope gets!

Especially as there are shit loads of terves amongst the Labour cllrs in my borough, they’ve managed to hold off every attempt at one of those performative virtue signalling motions (and there have been lots of attempts!)

I actually think Starmer would genuinely like to row back, not because he believes it's the right thing to but because what happened to Sturgeon seems to have shaken him up badly and he wants to win (and I really don't care about any of their motives - none of them are in this for women). I think it's a case of whether he can take the party with him - clearly at the moment he can't, but I still think a lot can happen before the next election.

Starmer is clearly trying to appease both sides. He is being very naive, this will not go away. If he doesn’t make his mind up on this, I think he has a shock coming to him at the next GE. The Labour Party (comms team) probably thought us silly women wouldn’t even see that tweet, thought Starmer had done the job of quieting us down after his ‘not a priority’.

Flo I like your optimism but I honestly think he believes he can ‘take the public with him’

I feel like that phrase has been taken from a previous politician incidentally. He likely overestimates his ability to do this but everything said shows that’s his clear motive.

He may have been spooked by NS but he thinks he can side step the land mine

Believing in the good side of the party or one person in the face of all the evidence to the contrary isn't something I'm willing to do any more.

It's either a spoilt ballot or voting Tory for me. If the Tories are crystal clear, that is. As well as the local candidate because even if the party goes TWANW but the local Tory does, they won't get my vote. If Duffield was my local candidate, I'd vote for her no question.

I almost liken this to a bad or abusive relationship, where you convince yourself that your reality isn't happening. It is happening. Labour are choosing this position.

I wouldn't say I was optimistic MarshaBradyo but I'm pragmatic, I think Starmer is too, and I think there's a long way to go yet. I can't see me ever lifting a finger for the Labour party again - they can go whistle - but, as far as my vote is concerned, I'm prepared to let it go to the wire.
In fact there's no way I'm promising anyone my vote with 18 months to go - it's the only card I've got.

• but the local Tory doesn't

Fair enough, no one has to decide before the day if they prefer not to, it’s up to each of us individually

Honestly, I think 18 months is an age in politics these days. How many Prime Ministers have we been through this year alone

I mean the last 12 months - not calendar year!

Serious Q...a typical woman in UK who has some skeptical attitudes on gender woo, but also wants to be kind to trans, not really that antagonised by TWAW mantras (possibly the single biggest female constituency amongst voters)...but you're struggling to put food on the table, pay utility bills, your mum has had her hip replacement op postponed again, your husband is in precarious employment, and you still can't buy a house despite being in your late 40s.
Are you really gonna look at this Tweet from Labour and say "God, fuck that trans shit, I'm voting Conservative"?
I don't think so. I think the vast majority of women will maintain voting neutral on this, and herd to Labour because of what they hear from Streeting on NHS. Labour will finesse the trans message to say no Self ID planned, and this will assuage another group of voters.
Leaving the Mumsnet and radical GC fraternity isolated and bitter.
I really wish this wasn't so, but in my bones I think it is.

That's precisely what makes Labour so dangerous.

They're banking on getting elected for other reasons, by people who largely don't support self ID but need to put food on the table and want to save the NHS - not that it's at all clear how Labour plans to help with any of these things - and once they're in power they'll be able to pretend that the fact that they won the election means everyone is fully behind gender woowoo so they can do what they like.

One of the comments points out that
"Just a few months ago Labour was listing the same meaningless points but would add 'while protecting the Equality Act [which allows for single sex spaces]' to 'modernise the Gender Recognition Act'. That's now been removed"

So they're already rolling back Starmer's earlier comments about women being entitled to "safe spaces".

It’s hard to predict.

Sturgeon is out, GEs can take turns on issues that previously had not been a focus eg Corbyn and antisemitism and Miliband and what.. a bacon roll

CoL crisis is largely a media construct (eg named and covered for a period of time) so it depends if energy prices have fallen and NHS can reduce times.

Penny M was similarly frustrated with good polling being scuppered by gender ideology.

Sturgeon and Mordaunt were not taken out by the ‘Mumsnet and radical GC fraternity’ they were taken out by an image and headlines.

Whenever I see this argument it doesn’t align with what’s happened recently.

Right now, there's only one game in town. Women, and their male allies (that's me), need to come out in greater and greater numbers, to show that this movement is not going away, and that our vote matters.
Starmer in particular needs to see that this is a genie that can't be put back in the bottle.
That genderwoo is a major electoral factor, that women will not roll over for their rights and those of girls.
That means LWS events need to accelerate and take off, that Posie needs to double down, that events and the narrative become undeniable. That the Conservative Party finally cement a proper GC position, clear blue sky to Labour. And that Labour have to articulate their position beyond finessed platitudes like #MumAndApplePie and #EveryoneIsSpecial.
Because if Starmer is given an easy ride, this Tweet is the best we can hope for...policy going into 2028 re a second Labour term will be much worse.

I will not vote Labour whilst this policy is on the table. I have a vulnerable daughter. If self ID get through, there’s no going back. The levels of misogyny are currently at a level I have never witnessed before. This is my red line.

TBH, why is anyone convinced that Starmer’s party will fix anything anyway? I’ve seen no credible evidence so far.

Also, whilst the country is in such a mess, why on earth would they concentrate their efforts on Self ID?

Marsha, I kinda agree. All I know is that Starmer works everyday with close colleagues in the shadow cabinet that have trans IDd children, his inner circle is populated with TWAW acolytes, the activist base is still Corbynista with the new intersectional analysis where trans allyship is a blood oath.
Imagine if Starmer is moderately GC or at least on the fence...how does he square skeptical policy with those who truly believe trans are a beleaguered minority...hasn't Labour always championed minorities?
Otoh, Starmer may genuinely be a trans ally.
We think he's likely skeptical because he's an older man, but as we've seen with the autogynephile community, older men are a big part of this drive.
Yes, Starmer may be a skeptic trying to balance competing zero sum game factions.
But he may also be TRA friendly, trying to finesse the party's message to sneak things past us.
And because Starmer appears to have no fixed belief system on anything else, always moving the goalposts to game the messaging, we have zero chance of ever finding out his true opinions.
I see it that Labour will only go in our direction if Starmer is irrevocably forced to, certainly not of its own freewill, or it believes in women and girls.
How fucking depressing.

What's that saying, something about how people won't remember what you say but they'll remember how you made them feel?

How Labour has made me feel with that tweet is that despite the very many grave issues nationally and internationally, a big prioirty for them remains throwing women and children under the nearest passing bus and gaslighting me about the nature of reality.
It's not a feeling that will lead to my vote on polling day.