Starmer rowing back on self ID - what do we think?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

The Times is reporting in its live politics feed that KS has explicitly said Labour will not push for self ID without public backing. I know not everyone can access their content so here is a copied n pasted version: what do you think?

Sir Keir Starmer has shifted Labour’s position on transgender rights as he said the bitter rows over Scotland’s Gender Recognition Bill showed the party must consider public opinion on the issue.The leader of the Labour Party has previously insisted it was committed to updating the Gender Recognition Act to introduce self-identification for transgender people.However, in a significant shift in Labour’s policy, he said the backlash over the SNP’s gender reform bill had made him think again. The SNP passed legislation this year that would make it significantly easier for people to acquire a gender recognition certificate and reduced the minimum age for doing so to 16. The bill was blocked by the UK government.Starmer said: “I think that if we reflect on what’s happened in Scotland, the lesson I take from that is that if you’re going to make reforms, you have to carry the public with you.

“And I think that’s a very important message and I think that’s why it’s clear that in Scotland, there should be a reset of the situation.”

Absolutely this.

I'm sick to death of the argument that women should settle for shit because the Tories are somehow worse.

In all honesty I'm not convinced how much better a Labour Govt would have been in managing Brexit, Covid and the impact of the war against Ukraine.

As an opposition they've hardly been effective in front of what should have been an open goal in respect of the Tories under Johnson.

I'm also done with the concept that self id is a "single issue" voting approach when the implications are so significant.

The idea that women would be better off under a govt that refuses to acknowledge what a woman is, is simply laughable.

As we have seen in NZ the sentiment that underpins the TRA ideology is fundamentally misogynistic to it core.

Ergo a party that endorses that ideology cannot be said in any sense, for any policy or strategy to centre the betterment of a sex class they deny exists.

Shon Faye told us to enjoy our erasure, but I suspect even they would be surprised about just how many women seem to be actively intent on voting for it, or are busy berating others to do so.

It's not up to me to self sacrifice my worth to vote Labour.

It's up to Labour to demonstrate to women that they are worth voting for - something they are failing to do.

Men have always beaten women up. Right wing men often obvious or in the bedroom.
Left wing men up to now have done a bang up job masking their misogyny in the cloak of social justice. But maybe for the first time, lefty men are showing their true colours, and not in private, in the open, the street, Speakers Corner, in universities, outside GC feminist and lesbian meets, on lesbian dating sites.
It's been quite the revely.

Typo...quite the revelation

This thread by Dennis Kavanagh of the Gay Men’s Network (posted by another Mumsnet earlier today on the general thread) is a plausible explanation!

https://mobile.twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1640035412453257221

It is not like forces like the Met police will do anything nor many courts, so punch away in the streets lads.

Well, video was posted today of the Met walking away en masse from the LWS event at Speakers Corner, effectively leaving a group of women incl Aja The Empress kettled by angry feral TRAs, mostly men.
So your sentiment is more accurate than you could imagine.

Glinner caught on camera at just the right time.

Gender falls in three stages.

The flight of the cowards
The howl of the zealots
The prosecution of the monsters

We near stage 3. They know it. We know it. That is where this rage comes from. That's why they're so angry. This is an implosion in a gender borg cube.

I disagree we are in stage one.

When you are over the target you get the most flak. The most radical political figures now are KJK and women like her.

To think of all the hours and hours of free work my parents and relatives gave the Labour Party in the past to stand up for the rights of all (even as a child I would leaflet our neighborhood for Labour because my dad was a Labour councilor) and how quickly they totally abandoned and shat all over women. They disgust me. Utter cowards who bow to raging misogynists and don’t even ask women our opinion on anything. Labour would have to radically change their stance for me to ever, ever vote for them again. The way they have treated Rosie Duffield is how they have treated us all, with utter contempt.

So Tradeup, how do you vote in 2024? I'm sure you've read Gordon Brown's excoriating report of the shit that 13 years of Tory govt has left us, especially the poorest of all.

Hope he is right about it being the endgame. It only seems like the UK which is fighting back though? And maybe the Republicans in the USA with the democrats in charge.

Most Gay men should be against 'gender identity ideology' as they are same-sex attracted not same gender attracted.

Gordon Brown is barking as he thinks 'more devolution' is the answer lol. Has anyone asked if he knows what a woman is?

Maybe he's good with the current direction, yknow, women devolving their identity and spaces to men.
No lol.

More devolution with no second chamber would be the fucking disaster we've been witness to recently.

We're already in it Marsha. Vote Tory, get more of it.

No I don’t want NZ. That’s leftist gender ideology.

All the people excusing it aren’t for me.

It’s leftism, violence and gender ideology altogether.

Agree with Rex and Dcbc

Lammy calling women dinosaurs comes from same place as turd guy in Aus

The violence in NZ and shocking imagery of Barbie K

And decapitate them in Scotland and pink leggings pic all comes from the same place

It starts with the inability to state biological reality as Starmer can’t and ends with violence

All the same men and their excuses

what do you mean ‘we are already in it?

In which ways are Britain and NZ’s current governments aligned politically?

Be

We already have men attacking women who speak. It happened this weekend, it's been happening for years. The Tories know about it, but have done nothing.

Gender ideology is more aligned with the left.

No chance am I voting it in.

I think what happened in London this weekend is more to do with the Met, and their failure to take action. There are laws in place, the police could have done something, they decided not to they decided not to.

Modaunt is just one TWAW Tory. Gillisn TWAW Keegan, our Tory Secretary of state for education is can't define "girl".

Apologies for any confusion.

Yes, well it would be nice if there was a political party whose MPs all understood what a woman is AND showed some signs of being capable of actually running the country, but unfortunately that's not the situation we are in.

Head above the parapet time. This argument has been raging across a number of threads for several days. I am going to vote Tory. There, said it.

"Gender ideology is more aligned with the left."

Where on earth do you get that idea from?

Christine Burns, one of the pioneers who set up Press For Change, was a Conservative party member.
Caitlyn Jenner is a Republican.
Theresa May made a speech at the Pink News Awards when she was Prime Minister, promising Self-ID and is still pro-trans, calling for a " trans-inclusive conversion therapy ban" last year.
Sue Pascoe is a TRA and is an area Chair of the Conservative Women's Organisation.
Rishi Sunak was unable to define what a woman is when first asked, finally coming up with an answer only a month ago.
Maria Miller started the whole Gender Recognition fiasco with Self id when she was Conservative Women and Equalities Minister, carried on by Caroline Noakes.
Ben Fitter-Harding is the Conservative Councillor in Canterbury accusing Rosie Duffield of transphobia.
Boris Johnson avoided ever defining a woman, and his wife was definitely pro-TRA - mind you, he lies about everything, so...

All Keir Starmer is doing is exactly what the Conservatives have done. No-one batted an eyelid when they started rowing back - and they're the ones who've been in power throughout. They could have stopped it in its tracks in this country and they didn't.

Easy. Look around western democracies. Anyone with a non inwardly looking view can see it.

Starmer is worried finally due to what happened to Sturgeon - not before as he found it easy to ignore when no threat to political career - but he still can’t beat it back hence the constant waffle and fudge.

He wants reform but needs to ‘take public with him’.

Hopeless.