Starmer rowing back on self ID - what do we think?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

The Times is reporting in its live politics feed that KS has explicitly said Labour will not push for self ID without public backing. I know not everyone can access their content so here is a copied n pasted version: what do you think?

Sir Keir Starmer has shifted Labour’s position on transgender rights as he said the bitter rows over Scotland’s Gender Recognition Bill showed the party must consider public opinion on the issue.The leader of the Labour Party has previously insisted it was committed to updating the Gender Recognition Act to introduce self-identification for transgender people.However, in a significant shift in Labour’s policy, he said the backlash over the SNP’s gender reform bill had made him think again. The SNP passed legislation this year that would make it significantly easier for people to acquire a gender recognition certificate and reduced the minimum age for doing so to 16. The bill was blocked by the UK government.Starmer said: “I think that if we reflect on what’s happened in Scotland, the lesson I take from that is that if you’re going to make reforms, you have to carry the public with you.

“And I think that’s a very important message and I think that’s why it’s clear that in Scotland, there should be a reset of the situation.”

And now they're playing the at least the Tories know what a woman is card.

I still find it incomprehensible that this has become a "card" that people can play, because the fucking idiots on the other side are pretending not to know what a woman is.

What a time to be alive.

Did you miss the constant at least the Conservatives know what a woman is rhetoric MissLucy? They've been hawking that lie for years.

According to Hansard, they always have known.

twitter.com/hairyleggdharpy/status/1049289194370002945?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Oh for goddess' sake give it a rest. You're convincing no one to vote Labour and annoying everyone. Your powers of persuasion are verging into the negative.

But they haven’t, have they? Because Theresa May believed that TWAW (though there was no actual party policy AFAIK) land Boris didn’t give a fuck about anything except Boris.

It’s only in the last year or so that the issue has had enough political salience for the Tories to adopt a policy on it.

Indeed. Labour are gifting this to them - and apparently it’s voters’ fault for noticing.

I don't care what you think about any party, you have no business telling people that their reasons for voting aren't their reasons.

This

I'm still waiting for the reasons why an ineffective and weak opposition should be voted into power. They haven't had a good track record in arguing against anything, or saying what they would do. Its all been a bit schoolboyish taunting rather than anything constructive. It was under Corbyn too.

A good opposition tends to get into power. Starmer and Co are not.

The Shadow Justice Minister’s recent Talk TV interview gave me secondhand embarrassment.

I’m not convinced any of our MPs have the chops to run a country, Red or Blue (or Yellow).

They've changed their mind since 2002. In 2017 Prime Minister Theresa announced their Self ID policy. Since then they've written genderwoo into policies impacting women and girls. Heres an example of what has been recorded in Hansard more recently.

https://debbiehayton.com/2021/03/17/why-does-penny-mordaunt-think-trans-men-are-men/

Our current Conservative TWAW Secretary of State for Education can't even define "girl".

QueenHippolyta I'm not trying to convince anyone to vote Labour.

How does voting Tory benefit women?

How does voting Labour benefit women?

How does voting Lib Dem benefit women?

How does voting Greens benefit women?

How does voting (name another party) benefit women?

You first.

How does voting Tory benefit women?

Because it's the only mainstream party that has stated its intention of upholding the EA and maintaining single sex spaces.

In addition it was Javid who commissioned the Cass Report.

Sunak has stated in the HOC his concern re: educational material in gender issues in schools and committed to look into it.

Labour:

We've seen the shit show in Scotland so whilst we are not wrong and all the front bench and most MP's believe in self id we won't make it a priority to erode women's rights until we get into government and then we can do what we want.

Pixie, I can't comment on the other parties because it's still a year until the GE and none have published a manifesto. I can comment on the Tories because they've been in power for 13 years.

BreadinCapivity IIRC KS has said he'll do both those things as well. Also, IIRC Sunak said he will consider an urgent review of the shit being poured into our schools for the last 6 years. "Consider" and "Urgent" aren't words that belong in the same sentence IMHO. And I've heard enough Tory lies about this.

Deeds not words.

It's unbelievable really. We have dozens and dozens of reasons to kick the Tories into touch (I speak as a Tory voter since 1983), and one main reason to be hugely wary of Starmer and Labour. Hard to reconcile looking past those dozens of reasons to the one that we're so suspicious about over Labour.
Yet we also know there's no deep philisophical devotion to the GC cause by Sunak and the Tories. For a party that's meant to "conserve" things, it's hugely unremarkable on being bold in conserving sex based rights and spaces.
Sunak got lucky with his decision to apply Section 35 to the Scottish GRR Bill.
Had this POS rapist not cropped up on day one setting off the loudest fire alarm anyone's ever heard, there's a possibility things would have ambled along with no controversy and no holding Starmer and Sunak to the fire.
No, it's pure good timing politically that "her penis" blew up the way it did so highlighting the lack of sanity in Self ID, giving the Tories in England ammunition.
But there's no genuine philisophical belief in sex based rights and spaces, from either party. The Tories just shade the argument.
However this is the world we live in now, totally imperfect and lacking rigor and commonsense. Now voting if you're intrinsically GC is predicated on whether this is gonna be the dominant single issue for you, if you can believe Starmers "the people won't stand for Self ID, so we won't bring it in" schtick, and whether you have confidence the Tories realise that this issue is absolutely salient with large numbers of female voters, and will propose just enough to placate them.

I don't look at Wales, its stance on self-ID and the state of the NHS and think 'wow, it would be amazing if Labour ran the whole of the UK'.

Again, can somebody clarify whether it's a special setting in Google Translate where

"I'm politically homeless, I think I'm going to spoil my ballot"

somehow comes out as

"Please scold me for voting Tory"

?

I may well vote Tory, for the first time in the election. The totalitarian streak running through the labour party, right up to the front bench, is frightening. So long as women are treated like heretics in the Labour Party for knowing what a woman is and the cascade of consequences for pretending otherwise, then I won't be lectured by anyone, let alone posters who wail up and down the boards like a sweeper scanning for a women with the temerity to vote on a single issue or be asking for their approval.

I'm also someone who's tired of Tory voters blaming everyone else for them voting Tory. Its your vote, your responsibility, own it.

You spend pages of a thread apparently attempting to influence how people intend to vote and then get annoyed when people say you are having an influence on how they intend to vote.

Yes, all of that is true. But they have scrapped plans to bring in self ID, and there are signs that they might reverse some of the damage already done, e.g. clarifying the Equality Act to make it clear that sex means your real sex and not your imaginary one. I think that what the Tories have allowed to happen in this area is very unfortunate, but I have more faith that they might fix some of it, or at least not allow it to get even worse, than I do in Labour. All Labour can give us is a half arsed statement that self ID isn't the first thing they will do, accompanied by some rather offensive implications about the bigoted electorate needing to get with the programme.

This and

I don't look at Wales, its stance on self-ID and the state of the NHS and think 'wow, it would be amazing if Labour ran the whole of the UK'.

But they have scrapped plans to bring in self ID, and there are signs that they might reverse some of the damage already done, e.g. clarifying the Equality Act to make it clear that sex means your real sex and not your imaginary one.

Bit inconvenient when the aim is to scold women into voting Labour, and when it's clearly Labour that got us into this mess in the first place, and when as a PP said, who looks at Labour in Wales and goes AMAZING YES PLEASE??

Deeds not words

Agreed. Like Starmer doing nothing when Rosie Duffield was abused.