Starmer rowing back on self ID - what do we think?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

The Times is reporting in its live politics feed that KS has explicitly said Labour will not push for self ID without public backing. I know not everyone can access their content so here is a copied n pasted version: what do you think?

Sir Keir Starmer has shifted Labour’s position on transgender rights as he said the bitter rows over Scotland’s Gender Recognition Bill showed the party must consider public opinion on the issue.The leader of the Labour Party has previously insisted it was committed to updating the Gender Recognition Act to introduce self-identification for transgender people.However, in a significant shift in Labour’s policy, he said the backlash over the SNP’s gender reform bill had made him think again. The SNP passed legislation this year that would make it significantly easier for people to acquire a gender recognition certificate and reduced the minimum age for doing so to 16. The bill was blocked by the UK government.Starmer said: “I think that if we reflect on what’s happened in Scotland, the lesson I take from that is that if you’re going to make reforms, you have to carry the public with you.

“And I think that’s a very important message and I think that’s why it’s clear that in Scotland, there should be a reset of the situation.”

"I would have assumed it was more to do with employment, etc.?"
I don't think so. Any form of exclusion can be framed as discrimination. This is why the petition is so important

Nice pivot there 👍

And absolutely beautiful example of a straw man.

Completely ignore the question about what labour actually plan to do, and instead make a point deriding people for being ‘economically illiterate’ by arguing against a point that only you raised.

Exquisite

If Labour's is being criticised then it is right to compare their position other parties.

The Communist Party policy seems remarkably sensible: https://www.communistparty.org.uk/women-are-fighting-back-world-wide-say-communists/

The Communist party has a very clear view on this and I've heard that the SDP are the same. Yet the self declared "single issue voters" on FWR don't seem keen to vote for those parties.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the single issue that many here are talking about when it comes to voting is: Is it the Conservative Party?

I'll bite.

I'm a single issue voter - since without having equality of rights, why should I be interested in anything else? It's rather like saying 'yes yes, you're voting to be enslaved BUT don't you care what taxes your masters will get to pay?'

I'm also a floating voter. No affiliations. No tribalism. No associated 'identity'. No nice box to be shut up in, sorry.

When the time comes, I suspect I shall probably have to tactically vote to keep the most dangerous candidate out. But it's at this point selecting the least grotty out of entire box of grotty. There is no one currently I actively WANT to vote for. There are just parties more dangerously nuts than others.

Now let's see how you can use that to call me extremist right wing. :)

Tis interesting, isn't it?

I'm hearing more and more:

homophobia is awful, obviously, but homosexual women should really provide sex to male people if they've claimed an internal identity, and rubbish like 'I don't want to' and 'hang on, are you saying my body is some kind of social duty to provide for sex I won't enjoy and don't want' is just them being sexual racists.

And obvs, obvs feminist - but women need to know their place and take care of men and men's interests first

and yes absolutely FOR safeguarding, but there are times when it's too upsetting to a person to safeguard a child for them and exceptions should be made, and yes there might be disasters that destroy that child's life, but it's better than making a troubled male sadder

and now: obvs democracy but you absolutely should be accountable and harried and pressured for your voting choices because if they're Not Labour then you're subhuman scum and Shame On You.

Just what the actual fuck is it with this decade?

Pretty much me too. Long term Tory voter since 1983 (I am old), ready to put the boot into the decaying Tory corpse, Liz Truss my local MP (yes, really!), ready to embrace some sensible and inspiring left wing alternative (yknow, Blair in his early pre-Iraq War pomp)...and what am I presented with?
Keir Starmer who says one thing to Pink News and then another to Mumsnet, and one of his team on JHB just days ago referring to the Scottish rapist as she/her.
You need a bank of supercomputers and the world's greatest experts to work out how I should vote.

And because of the current shoved marketing that anyone not voting Labour (regardless of how batshit and crap they are) is Evil, many people will lie when asked about their voting intentions. "Oh yes gov, I'll vote Labour please don't rant at me "

Then in the privacy of the ballotbox they will do what they actually want to do, and Labour will be all surprised that the forecasts don't match the outcomes. Again.

..If they're not Labour then you're sub human scum and shame on you.

Huh? Who said that to you because it certainly wasn't me.

No. The big difference with self-ID is that it would make it impossible to identify who was a woman, whereas currently this is possible.

So, if we had self-ID, the EA would still be in place, and would still say that some facilities could be reserved for women. The problem is that there would no longer be a way in law of identifying who is actually a woman.

Oh it's just the general gist I'm taking away from the endless nagging about 'if you don't vote Labour'.

Which is endless.

It's been said before on these sorts of threads, but I'm fascinated how:

"I'm politically homeless, might have to spoil my ballot"

is magically translated into

"Please scold me for voting Tory"

@RealityFan the MP saying he believes TWAW is generally a moderate centrist, or so I thought.

I'll make up my mind nearer the time, but it might be a protest vote on this single issue. If all the candidates in my area deny the biological reality of women then I will be disenfranchised.

As others have said there are Tories on both sides so a vote for them isn't an automatic vote for women.

I don't vote Labour, I never have and I've never been nagged for it.

Laladybird, according to a post on a different FWR thread, a Conservative Women's Group survey showed that recently, just 50% of Tory MPs had come round to biological reality. Previously the majority of them believed TWAW. And while some applaud Sunak for saying a woman is an adult human female, that was not always his stance. Previously a woman was whatever Boris Johnson said. Boris Johnson, who wouldn't say that only women have a cervix.

The Tories have been a disaster for women. In their fiscal policies, health policies, education policies, housing policies and insistence that TWAW.

I've heard many women on here say they'd vote for the Communist party or SDP but don't have candidates in their area.

How many constituencies will have Communist or SDP candidates that women could vote for?? I've never heard of a single candidate around here.

I do not think Starmer cares one way or another, neither does Sunak. They will just go with what will win them votes.

Labour are going to be the next party in power. So if you really cared about this issue then tell your Labour MP or candidate you would vote Labour if they support your views.

Does anyone know Stella Crease’s position on this please?

Stella Creasy’s

Many of us actually spoil our ballots - and will continue to do so until there is someone standing in our constituency who represents our values and concerns. The Communist party does not stand candidates in most constituencies, nor do the SDP - so how could you vote for them, even if you were so inclined?

‘Do I think some women were born with penises? Yes, but they are now women and I respect that.’

She supports Self ID.

This Stella Creasy?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4557912-stella-creasy-says-women-can-have-penises

I used to vote Lib Dem. They are worse than Labour on this. I would vote Green if they would keep out of identity politics. I would vote SDP happily - I don’t agree with all of their policies but none of them are bad enough to warrant me not using my ‘single issue vote’ for them.

Stella Creasy is one of the very worst. And she claims she’s a supporter of women.