Transgender women in sport on women's hour 20/03/23

[WarriorN]

Just heard they're going to discuss it.

Why am I surprised that this segment is the only part of this morning's programme not mentioned on Woman's Hour Twitter feed.?🤔

It should be available later - live programs usually take a bit longer to appear.

I thought the piece was well done.

The pro-unfairness speaker came across as evasive and dim.

Sharron was superb, articulate and with facts and data at her fingertips.

the lawyer sounded like a parody. I am also shocked that Joanna Harper didn’t appear live to be challenged on their shoddy “research”

@ThisIsUncool thanks

I think the best

Sharron was excellent. Clear, to the point.

The other speaker had very little really except 'the more we understand about gender' meaning 'the more women will shut up and enable male people'. I did enjoy the uhming and ahing when Sharron made the point about female athletes' mental health is of equal concern, and her point that this is sex based and is it acceptable to extend resources and support to male people that is not granted equally to female people.

This is what needs doing, repeatedly. Pointing out the sex based sexism of all this. And yes to the 'cis' bull. Not all women identify as 'cis', to use the terminology constantly inflicted on women. There is also no such thing as a 'typical' woman ffs.

Not mentioned on bbc sounds either, see upthread.

Though they do reserve space for last minute news items ... can't remember if similar has happened for other news items

Goodness me. How on earth did Sharron keep her cool when that lawyer kept intaking breath and then spouting some meaningless nonsense. Then another intake of breath and another load of meaningless nonsense. That lawyer said NOTHING. It was evasive and maybe and if and but and ‘intake of breath’ mental health of men bla bla bla.

Well done Sharron. It’s ludicrous. Utterly ludicrous. How dare that lawyer. How dare she.

Sharron Davis was outstanding. Rational, coherent, logical, persuasive and respectful (even to Tom Daley).

Seema Patel was having to pedal like f__k to try and explain why this is such a complicated issue (it's not) and generally avoid saying anything useful.

How can I find it please, link above broken

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001k7qr?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

I loathe the expression "it's complicated". It's not, really, it's quite simple. Biological men including transwomen do not belong in female sport.

It is complex if your agenda is to obfuscate. Ti every one else it is unbelievably simple.

I agree. It’s not FUCKING COMPLICATED.

Thing is I sometimes think - well the whole language salad is maybe becoming complicated for you Seema. It’s really complex to keep denying reality, denying the science and throwing your own sex under the bus. Maybe that’s what she means. This is really complicated to me. She has really soaked up the whole thing tho not realising that keeping saying cis women is offending the majority of listeners to that show.

Ha cross post!

Now look. Trans athletes don't cheat. They just want to take part. So we can just let them run or swim or cycle with women but their results won't ever count.

There, sorted.

Quite! It is only complicated if you refuse to enage with the substantive issues. When you do then it becomes quite straigtforward and the issues are very plain and clear.

Biological sex. Fairness and safety. Open categories for the purpose of inclusion.

Just listened to it on BBC sounds. Sharron was brilliant.

The lawyer spoke an awful lot of twaddle, basically 'sport needs to catch up with society - all the good/kind/progressive people think TWAW now so we must be inclusive'.

It was unintentionally funny when the lawyer was talking about asking trans people if they would like to be included in an 'open' category - has she never actually spoken to a 'transwoman' about this? Of course they don't want to be in an Open category! There's no validation there.

Happily, I think public opinion is now starting to catch up with the implications of 'TWAW'. The reality is that men aren't women, and the pretence in law and sporting rules that they are is not going to be permanent.

It was unintentionally funny when the lawyer was talking about asking trans people if they would like to be included in an 'open' category - has she never actually spoken to a 'transwoman' about this? Of course they don't want to be in an Open category! There's no validation there.

Yep there’s no validation and ‘it’s not fair’ because I have taken female hormones/reduced my male hormones which means I will no longer beat the men. So let me go beat the shit out of the women. Doesn’t matter it’s not fair. Me me me me me me ad Infinitum…

Have to say, though, I'm quite apprehensive about world athletics announcement this week - Thursday? - think Coe might screw women's sport over in favour of be kind to TW, despite all his pronouncements last year on fairness

I too thought Sharon was outstanding! I don’t know how she keeps her cool when faced with such blatant disregard for women.

The lawyer said words to the effect of .. -society will catch up and become more inclusive, based on gender identity-.
Well no it won’t, because our society will not stand by and watch the likes of Lia Thomas (sp?) wining every gold medal in the women’s category.

What will it take? A 6 foot 6 muscular sprinter with a smaller pelvis and big heart pump winning women’s Olympic gold ? When will people break ?

More like women (and men supportive of women) will wake up

And 17 peer reviewed studies must mean something. Why does the bbc change when Sharron cites those?