TWAW and others

[Tellyaddict123]

I have seen a few threads but have no idea what people are talking about. Can someone help with the basics and what these terms all mean?

TWAW for example? What’s the two sides to this debate?

Some people think Transwomen are women

Other people think Transwomen are men who think they are women

What do you think OP?

TWAW = Trans women are women
GC = gender critical

Basically those who accept that people can identify as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth and those who don't.

You could google or search on mn. There's so much written.

Try the "break it down for me" thread.

Very educational. You'll love it.

Who 'assigns gender at birth'? Is it a doctor or midwife? Or a peripatetic gender assignment specialist? Someone else?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

@Baldieheid thanks this is probably what I’m looking for, never paid to much attention to this topic in the past.

@StopStartStop super helpful 😳

@CliantheLang 🥰🥰🥰

@imnotachap maybe I should have put gender registered at birth

the two sides are as follows-1 what everyone believed until five minutes ago-i.e. old fashioned stuff like biology, science and truth. These people are hate filled transphobes, racists, homophobes, etc. 2-0.001 per cent of the population who are tin foil hat batshit mentalists who think reality is optional. Hope this helps.

TWAW is stated by people who do not think that biological sex is immutable and observable. Hence you get the 'sex assigned at birth' nonsense.

They also claim that the word 'woman' does not mean 'adult human female' but that it means anyone who 'identifies' as a woman.

They literally claim that men can be women. Baffling isn't it?

re:TWAW
It all depends whether you think men are women if they feel like one, like Keir Starmer. Obviously, biologically, a man can never be a woman. So people have tried to change the definition of a woman. So then people make women a sub category of women by calling women, cis women. So in their ‘language’ a woman includes women and men but women who are biologically women can also be called cis-women.

Who queue jumps and 'assigns' it at the 20 week scan. And does that annoy the so called assigner at birth?
What if one wanted to assign it ome thing and one another, eerie meanie minie mo style?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Oops been beaten to it.

I'd also suggest a little time on the trans widows threads.

Nobody registers a gender, it's the sex that is observed at birth (or at the 20 week scan/blood tests during pregnancy) and recorded on the birth certificate.

Gender is masculinity and femininity and is just feelings whereas sex is biology (male or female)

TWAW.. there are absolutely no differences between transwomen and natal women (term used for clarity). Whether you are a man or woman depends on what you want to be.

Other side... there are biological differences between the two, which matters in health care, sport, and similar fields. But things like clothes, toys, hobbies etc don't matter as both men and women can like what they want to like.

There is then those who believe that "gender" must align with sex.

@TWETMIRF I haven’t ever stopped to think about it. If you asked me I would say sex and gender are the same. But I guess this is changing as you can have someone who was born with the sex male but transitioned to be female and now their gender is female. But people would say their sex is still male (hence why they can’t compete in sports against females as they have an advantage).

is that right? I’m very new to this!

Sex doesn't change. Make up, hair, clothes, preferences for pink or blue, or rainbow, are what used to be called 'a personality".

Do you think a male soldier who stepped on a landmine, losing his male genitalia, is now a woman as a result? If not, why is a male who chooses that surgery a woman?

Do you think a woman, say Angelina Jolie, who removed her breasts because of a medical need, is now a man? Why, if not, is a female who chose that surgery for other reasons, a man?

It's simply because they say they are, according to the ideology. Their word is all that's needed.

The words sex and gender have become conflated, which is what happens when language gets messed around.

My definition of sex is biological, ie male (born with male sex organs) or female ( born with female sex orgams)

Gender for me is being masculine or feminine and basically just stereotypes. I don't really recognise gender for myself but accept others may want to.

So I and many others on here believe you can change gender all you like, but sex is immutable even after a so called sex change/ gender reassignment. Surgeons can for example remove part of the flesh on the arm to create a neo penis but it no more makes a female male than getting a lump of plasticine and sticking it in some y fronts would.

Sex and gender are not the same, the use of the word gender started to be used as a synonym for sex because people didn't like to say the word 'sex'.

No- one whether male or female can transition to the opposite sex to the one they are.

Female is not a gender it is a sex.

Your 'transitioned' person will always be the sex they were born.

Unsurprisingly the male sex does have a physical advantage over women it doesn't take a genius to work that out and that is why sport was segregated by sex in the first place.

Also it's worth mentioning that most transpeople don't have full genital surgery as it's quite a big operation/ series of operations with high risk of complications such as affecting urination.

Top surgery ie breast implants/ breast removal is more common

It's the traditional definition and biology vs "I'm not going to debate my existence".

So I'm not sure there are "two sides" here, so much as the trans activist side often refuses to debate, wants to censor the opposition, and just accuses people of being "hateful" if they don't go along with everything they want.

If you can get a definition of woman out of them, it's probably something meaningless like, "a woman is anyone that identifies as a woman".

They will make a fuss about how, "there is a difference between biology and gender", "we don't deny biology", and then they immediately ignore biology and think that gender identity is everything to the point that males should be allowed to play women's sports. What does gender identity have to do with sports performance?

They may also bring up rare "intersex" conditions, which has little to do with the trans debate.

I suggest maybe asking your question on a trans forum as well as here. Make sure you see both sides.

Good luck OP. Once you realise that what you see as logical and is established and proven science is consider transphobic you will be feeling the cognitive dissonance raging through your mind.

I suggest you might like to read Trans by Helen Joyce, and irreversible damage by Abigail Shier as a start.

Maybe even listen to Stephen Nolan investigates as he explores how Stonewall and others have worked to bring this about

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p09yjmph

or this documentary.

Read JK Rowlings' essay and listen to Professor Robert Winston.