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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

R4 Sunday religious sex workers

115 replies

ExiledElsie · 19/03/2023 07:48

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbcradioo_fourfm?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Surprising section on Sunday on R4 about sex work. All about opportunities for extra income, how it interacts with religion.

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ExiledElsie · 19/03/2023 07:58

theconversation.com/uncovering-the-secret-religious-and-spiritual-lives-of-sex-workers-195126

An article by the woman being interviewed.

So depressing how women advocate for men to use women as objects and claim it empowers the women. Apparently it's the organisations trying to get women out of prostitution that are more problematic.

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BlackForestCake · 19/03/2023 09:22

You have to be incredibly perverted to describe how a prostitute prays when she doesn’t feel safe with a john, and present this as something positive.

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Gonners · 19/03/2023 10:28

Just to update Elsie's link, which is to the live broadcast. The programme is here, and the section starts 30 minutes in.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001k7kb

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Winterborne74 · 19/03/2023 11:12

Safety challenges are an occupational hazard for sex workers.

No shit.

Also it’s pretty grim that it’s presented as as positive that religious prostitutes can help a sex buyer overcome his religious inhibitions about paying for sex as if that is a good thing.

As ever these pieces are completely bereft of any kind of class or structural analysis. There maybe a few individual happy sex workers, but the global impact of the sex trade on women and girls is devastating and weaving together a few individual stories in the absence of any context or data to persuade people that the main problem with sex work is the stigma rather than abhorrent exploitation is colluding with and acting to support that exploitation.

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Winterborne74 · 19/03/2023 11:19

P.s. should say I didn’t listen, but read the article so may have missed the point of the radio piece.

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Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 19/03/2023 11:23

Is nothing sacred to these people?

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ÉireannachÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉ · 19/03/2023 12:03

It's strange that people would think sex workers couldn't possibly be religious/spiritual.

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JacquelinePot · 19/03/2023 13:00

Read but haven't listened and honestly found it pretty gross.

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EndlessTea · 19/03/2023 15:34

I couldn’t finish reading that. So revolting.

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Coyoacan · 19/03/2023 19:05

Next week the religiosity of torture victims

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namitynamechange · 19/03/2023 19:20

I also feel uncomfortable about the "sexualisation of religion as a way to increase earnings". Religion has always been sexualised/fetishized by some (sexy nuns,, doing forbidden things in churches etc, burkhas being sexy). But that's at least in part because sacred stuff is seen as forbidden/off limits or because women's religious clothing demonstrates another boundary for men to cross/breach. Its not new. But the idea that playing to that is somehow a valid part of religious experience makes as much sense as prostitution being "empowering" for women. I'm not particularly prudish or dogmatic but it feels sad - like nothing is sacred or allowed to be sacred.

And what's with religion as an "identity" primarily rather than a belief. Is this a New Thing?

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namitynamechange · 19/03/2023 19:22

Also "Maya" and her yoga sounds hopelessly naive. I very much doubt her clients are watching her perform yoga because off the spiritual aspects of the practice.

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Crutcher · 19/03/2023 19:44

Coyoacan · 19/03/2023 19:05

Next week the religiosity of torture victims

Writing this cheapens the experience of actual victims. Whatever your view is of sex work, those engaging in it do so of their own free will.

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Anactor · 19/03/2023 19:51

Crutcher · 19/03/2023 19:44

Writing this cheapens the experience of actual victims. Whatever your view is of sex work, those engaging in it do so of their own free will.

If that is your belief, it’s an extremely naive one.

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ExiledElsie · 19/03/2023 19:57

Winterborne74 · 19/03/2023 11:19

P.s. should say I didn’t listen, but read the article so may have missed the point of the radio piece.

Your spot on winterborne.

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PonyPatter44 · 19/03/2023 20:00

Crutcher · 19/03/2023 19:44

Writing this cheapens the experience of actual victims. Whatever your view is of sex work, those engaging in it do so of their own free will.

@Crutcher , there may be some women going into sex work of their own free will, but the majority are trafficked and/ or addicted women, because they have minimal choice in the matter.

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ExiledElsie · 19/03/2023 20:04

I also feel uncomfortable about the "sexualisation of religion as a way to increase earnings".

I was as well. It strikes me as extremely disrespectful of religions to suggest women can and should earn more money for sex acts dressed in religious clothing.

And I find it quite odd to say that as someone who is non-religious. It's just that if we give people special dispensations in society for their religious beliefs it's a bit odd to act as though disrespecting them for men's sexual pleasure is fine.

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TheSilveryPussycat · 19/03/2023 20:06

Great topic for a PhD though, was it not? Hmm

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namitynamechange · 19/03/2023 20:23

@ExiledElsie Money, sex and religion exist in a very awkward space to each other as it is. This feels like EVERYTHING is up for commodification and the free market - bodies, souls (if they exist), ones deepest beliefs and its just uurghh.

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ThereIbledit · 19/03/2023 20:26

I feel sick. That's the second complaint I'll be sending to the BBC in a week then. Strongly encourage others to do the same.

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Gonners · 19/03/2023 20:27

@ExiledElsie "It strikes me as extremely disrespectful of religions to suggest women can and should earn more money for sex acts dressed in religious clothing."

I haven't read the article but did listen to the programme and was baffled by that. I can sort of understand profiting by it if you're not a member of the religion yourself and the punters like it. But if you claim to be a practising member of a religion that condemns prostitution, it's utterly bizarre.

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ThereIbledit · 19/03/2023 20:31

@Crutcher I'm REALLY struggling with understanding how you can be on a female-centred forum in the feminism section and make a statement like that. 😕

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NotDrowningJustCrowing · 19/03/2023 20:35

I'm not really sure what she's attempting with her PhD. The notion that there's anything new about sex workers being religious is naive at best. The fact that some of them incorporate their religion into their sex work to make money, well that's just looking at another kink and a specific way for the women using it to make more money.

She states that all the women she spoke to were consenting sex workers, blah and then says that she was a bit worried about Lilly:

"Lilly told me that sex work provides her with greater opportunities to earn more compared to other jobs available to her. I did feel concerned that Lilly, at times, was made to feel scared by her clients. But it was also clear to me that, for Lilly, these negative experiences do not outweigh the positive benefits she says she gains from being an escort."

The benefit Lilly gains from being a sex worker is that it's the only way she can earn enough money to live. She recites prayers in her head when she is scared of a client. That is the limit of the overlap of religion and sex work for her. That is tenuous at best.

The author is at best naive at worst so caught up in her own idea of what would make a great semi-woke PhD that her ignorance borders on wilful. Actually, what am I talking about with semi-woke? I forgot the trans Norse pagan mostly because my eyes rolled far back in my head when I read it so fucking woeful was it. At no point is there any consideration that sex work is inherently dangerous and not something to speak about so bloody blithely.

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Crutcher · 19/03/2023 20:39

@PonyPatter44

The evidence is not in your favour. The rare few sex workers in the UK are actually trafficked or forced. Most do it by choice.

By that I mean they need money and sw is highly paid and flexible hours. Obviously there are no rich women who do sw for the fun of it, but to compare people making hard choices to people actually being tortured or enslaved, is an insult to real victims.

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Crutcher · 19/03/2023 20:40

@ThereIbledit

It would help if you were a bit more specific.

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