Should IVF be available to lesbians?

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And single women? Or should assisted conception only be for infertile women in heterosexual relationships?

Sorry I am still confused. I think it is where you said "if" lesbian woman can supply the sperm that made my head spin.

What I think you are saying, is that if the lesbian couple already have an arrangement with a man and are trying through artificial insemination to get pregnant unsuccessfully, then they should have the same access to female infertility intervention as heterosexual women.

Could you clarify, if , on the other hand, the man they have the arrangement with is the one with fertility problems, do you think fertility services should provide them with donor sperm, (as a heterosexual couple may be offered) or that they should be sent away to make an arrangement with a different man?

You believe that lesbians should have exactly the same rights as hetero couples, so fertility treatment/ivf etc etc but you do not advocate for those same rights for gay men?

And if I've got that right can you explain how you cannot see the flawed hypocrisy of your argument for equality.

I know you weren't asking me, but I don't really see this as hypocritical because of the inherent differences in male and female involvement in having a baby.

An otherwise fertile lesbian couple would need sperm, and the NHS would fund a straight couple who needed sperm (obviously with the caveat of the various conditions around fertility treatment on the NHS).
A gay male couple would need a surrogate. The NHS doesn't fund surrogacy for anyone, gay or straight. A woman (whether she's single, in a lesbian couple, or in a straight couple) who requires a surrogate would not have this funded by the NHS.

So you can treat a gay couple in exactly the same way you would treat a straight couple - neither get surrogacy funded for them. And you can treat a lesbian in exactly the same way as a straight couple - both get access to sperm donors (and fertility treatment for the woman if necessary).

Obviously some people would still argue against the lesbian couple having help, because it's not a medical issue.

@EndlessTea enough with the faux confusion. You disagree, as is obvious by your comments throughout. That's fine.

Right! thanks for the explanation - I think I can see what you are saying, although I do not agree with any of it.

I am curious as to your thoughts on surrogacy. Presumably you are female? How does that sit with you?

You are mistaken. I am stating that lesbians right to access help to conceive is not the equivalent of gay men using surrogacy as TinselAngel said.

Assisted conception and surrogacy are worlds apart.

OK, so I am interested then on your thoughts regarding surrogacy? Is this problematic to you as a woman?

Do you think gay men, or anybody, should have access to women for the purpose of surrogacy?

It’s not faux confusion. I seriously do not know what you mean. It’s like you miss out half of a sentence and assume people know what you are on about.

EndlessTea do you belive that lesbian couples should have the same rights as heterosexual couples to access assisted conception?

I mean I totally disagree that a lesbian can supply sperm. What a bizarre claim. You can’t mean it literally, so I have to work out what I imagine you mean, which is not satisfactory is it?

Do you think gay men, or anybody, should have access to women for the purpose of surrogacy?

No. I don't think surrogacy should be legal.
I don't think lesbians with no fertility issues should jump straight to IVF because there are other, cheaper, safer routes that they should explore first. In the same way that hetrosexual couples can't decide to have a baby and jump straight to IVF.

I don’t believe anyone has the ‘right’ to assisted conception.

However, everyone should be treated equality for their medical conditions and their sexual orientation is irrelevant.

To get that though the lesbian couple my do 12 DIY inseminations without success.

If not how is it fair that a heterosexual couple have to try for a year before they even get testing.

@EndlessTea keep thinking, you'll get there.

I doubt it. Read your own posts back and imagine how they may be understood by someone who can’t see into your mind and know what you meant to say, where you done resolve your arguments properly.

Don’t resolve

Surrogacy is different to IVF in that there isn't a medical procedure, I don't agree with surrogacy but clearly people do make arrangements and these are not paid for by the state therefore it is difficult/almost impossible to stop and therefore the current situation where payment is not allowed seems to me to be a compromise. IVF is a medical procedure and providing that for something that is impossible naturally is wrong.

EndlessTea I have just read your comments on another thread where you called a lesbian poster a spoilt brat for accessing assisted conception and accused lesbians of misusing state infertility services just because they find men annoying/don't want to risk STDs.

Your objection to lesbian parents is clear.

How do you think surrogate mothers get pregnant? Thankfully we're not in Gilead yet.

In some cases there are two medical procedures as two women are used to achieve the baby.

Not for free no unless they are infertile.

I had IVF as a single woman and I paid for it at a private clinic. I don’t think the NHS should have funded it, because I didn’t have any major fertility issues. If I’d turned out to have blocked fallopian tubes for example, then yes, I think the NHS should have funded it. I think the same should apply to lesbian couples.

Saying that, I strongly believe the government should clamp down on the excessive fees charged by the UK fertility industry. The fees sometimes have no bearing on the actual cost of providing the treatment - the industry knows it has would-be-parents over a barrel and charges as much as it thinks the market can bear.

That is an inaccurate summary.

My position is more like this:

I believe it is bratty and entitled to believe you have the “right” to access someone else’s gametes.

I believe it is bratty and entitled to claim that your wants and preferences are “rights”.

I believe it is bratty and entitled to believe you have the “right” to use NHS fertility services if there is nothing wrong with your fertility.

I believe it is bratty and entitled to say that anyone who doesn’t support you getting everything you want in the way you want it, even if it involves trampling the rights of others, ‘doesn’t support gay rights’ or is ‘homophobic’.

Whose rights are trampled when lesbians use medically assisted conception @EndlessTea?

@ÉireannachÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉ I am female yes. I don't agree with surrogacy at all.
I brought it up just to talk about the massive differences between what is required to get an otherwise fertile lesbian pregnant (sperm) and what is required to give a gay man a baby (a surrogate). I guess I wouldn't focus on the sexuality of the person wanting the treatment, I'd focus on the treatment itself. The NHS funds using sperm donors, it doesn't fund surrogacy. So I wouldn't say that gay men get unequal treatment. Equal treatment between sexes when talking about pregnancy doesn't make a lot of sense to me, given that pregnancy/having a baby is massively unequal between the sexes anyway.

‘Medically assisted conception’ can mean a whole lot of things. Be specific.

I don't need to be specific for you to tell me whose rights are trampled when lesbians access assisted conception @EndlessTea?