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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

The Lib Dem candidate has just been round, and guess what...

60 replies

FetchezLaVache · 14/03/2023 17:03

He couldn't say what a woman is.

He is a biochemist by training and doesn't believe it's as simple as XX or XY.

He believes that some people are born into the wrong bodies.

He personally doesn't mind who is in the next cubicle, but does accept that some women might not feel equally comfortable.

He believes that the issue with men using female changing rooms is not that men might try to spy on women getting changed, because some women do that too and it's a crime that should be punished regardless of the sex of the person committing it - he clearly thought that was an absolutely unanswerable point, despite conceding he's not aware of any cases of biological women being caught spying on other changing room users.

He's not bothered that I won't be voting him because of his and his ridiculous party's views.

OP posts:
Igneococcus · 14/03/2023 19:30

Green parties worldwide typically do not whip their MPs.

Somebody needs to tell the Scottish Green Party.

Original poster
FetchezLaVache · 14/03/2023 19:37

howmanybicycles · 14/03/2023 19:22

"He believes that the issue with men using female changing rooms is not that men might try to spy on women getting changed, because some women do that too and it's a crime that should be punished regardless of the sex of the person committing it"

so does he think we should just have unisex changing rooms? If not, why not?

He thinks unisex is fine, as long as there are also 'gendered' (sic) facilities for those who feel uncomfortable in unisex ones. But he ferreted slightly totally when asked if he would support TW being allowed to use the women's. I think we know what that means.

OP posts:
AmuseBish · 14/03/2023 19:40

He couldn't say what a woman is.

It's actually really bloody offensive to go round saying TWAW then saying you have no idea what it is you are saying TW are. If I came across a word I didn't know what it meant I wouldn't go round saying a group of people are it! I'd feel a right idiot!

By what mechanism are people born into the wrong body? Where is the right body?

AmuseBish · 14/03/2023 19:44

It almost by definition requires a religious belief, or a belief in something metaphysical. I'd be uneasy about voting for someone who believes in a flawed supernatural power who determines bodies - at least, not without a really clear elaboration of what their belief entails and whether it would interfere in, e.g, abortion rights.

howmanybicycles · 14/03/2023 19:47

FetchezLaVache · 14/03/2023 19:37

He thinks unisex is fine, as long as there are also 'gendered' (sic) facilities for those who feel uncomfortable in unisex ones. But he ferreted slightly totally when asked if he would support TW being allowed to use the women's. I think we know what that means.

Show quote history

He thinks there should be 100 categories of changing room? Or he thinks agender females (aka woman FFS) should share their facilities with men who believe their gender is 'woman'. I would have liked him to share his 'logic' about this. Why does he think people are any more comfortable in 'gendered' ones than they are in unisex ones? The only people who largely appear to feel more comfortable in his proposed set-up are trans identifying men.

Forester1 · 14/03/2023 19:48

As said on another thread the SDP know what a woman is

Crouton19 · 14/03/2023 20:08

The “it’s going to happen anyway”/“some women do that too” is one of the LD scripted responses.

https://lgbt.libdems.org.uk/en/page/debunking-transphobic-talking-points-longer-version#predatory

The rest of that link should give you an idea what will come up, and how ridiculous their position is. Absolutely no compassion for women and children, a total Us v Them approach and nothing like the pragmatic approach of the party of 10 yrs ago.

PegasusReturns · 14/03/2023 20:14

The trouble is that saying you won’t vote, not voting or spoiling your vote doesn’t have an impact.

you have to vote for the opposition and that is a difficult to ask.

StephanieSuperpowers · 14/03/2023 20:19

I'm at the point where I'm going to say that I'll vote for whichever party isn't in favour of this nonsense. Don't come to my door any lie to me about what we both know, and worse, try to tell me that you reckon men and women have the same offending patterns and expect my vote, you absolute canary.

I wouldn't leave someone that thick I'm charge of a cat, let alone policy. Lacking even that basic competence, don't look for my vote.

TheBiologyStupid · 14/03/2023 20:20

Crouton19 · 14/03/2023 20:08

The “it’s going to happen anyway”/“some women do that too” is one of the LD scripted responses.

https://lgbt.libdems.org.uk/en/page/debunking-transphobic-talking-points-longer-version#predatory

The rest of that link should give you an idea what will come up, and how ridiculous their position is. Absolutely no compassion for women and children, a total Us v Them approach and nothing like the pragmatic approach of the party of 10 yrs ago.

Thanks, Crouton - Lib Dems are the only ones who bother canvassing here (safe Tory seat and Labour seem to be too weak locally to bother). I'll be ready and waiting!

TheBiologyStupid · 14/03/2023 20:22

And that link is being archived for posterity, too!

aweegc · 14/03/2023 21:02

DiscoBoots · 14/03/2023 17:51

I got doorstopped by a local Green candidate yesterday.

We discussed local issues then she asked if she might get my vote. I replied that I couldn't vote for the Green party due to their stance on trans issues and the loss of women's rights

She took a deep breath and replied that she wouldn't be whipped to vote a specific way on issues (implied that was Green policy) and told me that she personally was very concerned about these issues and the implications for women, and she wouldn't feel comfortable using the loo with a man next door and certainly didn't want to see any males in women's prisons.

All very sensible and common sense.

I asked her to pass on that this was a huge issue for me and many people I knew and she gave me a clear indication I was not the only person to mention this

Thing is, if she can't define what woman is then the idea that a man shouldn't be in women's spaces becomes meaningless.

It all comes back to the ability to define what a woman is.

ArabellaScott · 14/03/2023 22:18

FetchezLaVache · 14/03/2023 17:32

@viques snap! It's a new LD candidate in a Tory stronghold, so obviously a bit of a keen bean. It's the first time I have been doorstopped and I was so excited. I had actually ignored the knock, then when I saw the LD pamphlet on the mat I positively sprinted to the door! I consider myself very lucky too.

😂

The poor door-knockers must be in absolute fear of getting a feminist.

Original poster
FetchezLaVache · 14/03/2023 22:23

@ArabellaScott Grin

OP posts:
IneedanewTV · 14/03/2023 22:30

Last week I had the Green Party candidate. He too couldn’t define what a woman was but basically said that TWAW. He then proceeded to tell me that TW are being murdered at a higher rate than women. So that’s ok then?

BluebellBlueballs · 14/03/2023 22:32

I'm a centrist and politically homeless

The only party who knows what a woman is are the torys and I'm not voting tory

BluebellBlueballs · 14/03/2023 22:32

aweegc · 14/03/2023 21:02

Thing is, if she can't define what woman is then the idea that a man shouldn't be in women's spaces becomes meaningless.

It all comes back to the ability to define what a woman is.

Show quote history

Thats pretty much the nub of it

Needapadlockonmyfridge · 14/03/2023 23:01

Last year I emailed the local LibDen Councillor candidate abd asked them their view on thus... neither bothered to reply.

The local Tory candidate did doorstep. He didn't seem very clued up on this, though very willing to listen. I gave him a printout of Sex Matters info.

Sadly the LibDems won. They still haven't answered my bloody email.....

Needapadlockonmyfridge · 14/03/2023 23:02

Sorry, typos aplenty. Phone keyboard!!

MathiasBroucek · 14/03/2023 23:05

Bloke here. Am also horrified by this

Why does the TWAW brigade insist on behaving like the rest of us are the weirdos? All part of the gaslighting, I suppose….

LK1972 · 14/03/2023 23:44

BluebellBlueballs · 14/03/2023 22:32

I'm a centrist and politically homeless

The only party who knows what a woman is are the torys and I'm not voting tory

If you call yourself a centrist, why would you not consider voting for Tories, out of interest?

QueenoftheAngles · 15/03/2023 00:22

Crouton19 · 14/03/2023 20:08

The “it’s going to happen anyway”/“some women do that too” is one of the LD scripted responses.

https://lgbt.libdems.org.uk/en/page/debunking-transphobic-talking-points-longer-version#predatory

The rest of that link should give you an idea what will come up, and how ridiculous their position is. Absolutely no compassion for women and children, a total Us v Them approach and nothing like the pragmatic approach of the party of 10 yrs ago.

I am in a safe Tory seat. Lib Dem female candidate, first female candidate that I can remember. I voted Lib Dem in 2019. I emailed to ask for her views on single sex spaces and I got a cut and paste version of this link back. Needless to say there was no mention of any of this on her website or the leaflet that dropped through my door.

The response to my email was completely incoherent and basically called me a bigot because apparently the type of people raising these concerns were the same kind of people who supported section 28. I really should reply but every time I try I get really really cross and she’s made it very clear
what her position is so I think it would be a complete waste of my time.

Chersfrozenface · 15/03/2023 07:20

PegasusReturns · 14/03/2023 20:14

The trouble is that saying you won’t vote, not voting or spoiling your vote doesn’t have an impact.

you have to vote for the opposition and that is a difficult to ask.

Absolutely.

Labour / LibDems / Greens / SNP+PC have to be told that harmful genderist nonsense not only loses them votes, it ensures votes for their opposition. Otherwise they just don't care.

Voters choices have to be negative for them, not neutral.

I have never voted Tory in my life, but I damn well will if the Tory party gets this right and no-one else does.

rioseco · 15/03/2023 07:47

I've never voted Tory and I'm in a marginal seat. My male Tory MP has responded twice to my emails with thoughtful and accurate replies. He TOTALLY gets it.
So what do I do? This isn't a single issue as it crosses over into education, health, employment etc and it is so important to me...

Chersfrozenface · 15/03/2023 07:57

rioseco · 15/03/2023 07:47

I've never voted Tory and I'm in a marginal seat. My male Tory MP has responded twice to my emails with thoughtful and accurate replies. He TOTALLY gets it.
So what do I do? This isn't a single issue as it crosses over into education, health, employment etc and it is so important to me...

I'd tell all the candidates exactly that.

Tell them you will vote for the Tory not for them.

And do it. Just this once.