Did Rachel Reeves change anyone's mind re Labour?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

Apologies if there is already a thread but couldn't see one. Just got around to watching the RR interview from last week - www.mumsnet.com/news/mumsnet-founder-justine-roberts-puts-users-questions-to-shadow-chancellor-rachel-reeves there if anyone needs a link.

She seems to say quite clearly that Labour would protect women's spaces - and when Justine clarifies to ask if she means a woman on the basis of sex not gender, RR agrees that sex is the operative category!

I did not think we would see this from them. Does it change your mind?

I don’t think Labour are trustworthy on this issue.

Streeting is gaslighting too in that quote.

They voted for it, without a gun to their heads!

Streeting was once in Stonewall along with Angela Rayner in the 'Labour against Transphoiba' group with Lilly Maddigan.

I have that DANGER signal around Streeting and always will.

Yeah, I think labour in general and Streeting in particular are never going to go full gender critical - it's just not going to happen. If that's your red line then you won't be able to vote for them. But for me - who would like a labour government across policy areas from poverty and benefits to education and brexit - I thought the 'gaslighting' language and the acknowledgement of difficulty/conflict was really interesting and positive. I don't need labour to agree with me but I do need them to stop calling me a bigot, and I think they're getting there.

I was a lifelong Labour voter. Self-ID was the wake up call for me concerning Labour's structural misogyny. Self-ID is an important issue in itself but even removing that from their manifesto, there is

• grooming gangs and the failure to properly review and understand how Labour councils enbabled
• Lloyd Russell-Moyle among many other misogynist male MPs
• sex work is work / Leeds zones
• let's teach children how to strangle-wank safely!
• Lily Madigan
• Eddie Izzard
• Jeremy Corbyn cultists
• never had a woman leader
• treatment of women in unions
• Glasgow Council's sex discrimination case / banning all women services
• Nottingham Council illegally discriminating against feminists
• nasty Momentum idiots like Claudia Webbe and Jared O'Mara being tolerated for so long
• Sadiq Khan and his (lack of) oversight of the Met Police / sacking of Joan Smith

I'm sure there are a million other things I could add.

I have absolutely ZERO confidence in the current Labour party when it comes to any women's or children's issues. I can't imagine ever voting for them again and I doubt I will ever vote for any major political party again.

Streeting saying ""I acknowledge that women who have been raising the alarm about this have done so in good faith. We need to stop gaslighting women, stop silencing women and stop pretending that there aren’t challenges"...

He doesn't say the women were right, does he? "In good faith" = genuine but wrong.

And not pretending there aren't challenges? Well, that just tells me Labour will try to deal with the "challenges" i.e. make self ID palatable by tinkering with a few things they think the public finds unpalatable.

I bet that will involve looking at men sentenced for sexual offences and identifying as women "on a case by case basis" before deciding on prison placement. That'll be pretty much it.

Any other man who gets a GRC can crack on invading women's spaces. And given Streeting's stance that it is unacceptable to check ID, that means in practice any man, GRC holder or not.

And as for what is taught in schools - can you really see Labour publishing and enforcing sensible guidelines? "Something something wishy washy respect be kind accept people's identities and kinks."

”I respect them and accept that without asking to see their birth certificate, their passport, or asking them to pull their trousers down.”

This is such an idiotic thing to say.

Thanks @FKATondelayo I'd forgotten the abomination that is Lily Madigans role in the Labour Party.

It's a hard no from me OP.

All excellent point @FKATondelayo . A useful checklist of the things they need to do to be credible on womens rights

The Tories have never had a female Chancellor or Shadow Chancellor.

I'm neither giving a hard no or a hard yes at this point. There are signs of a shift - for which I give all credit to the Labour Women's Declaration - and I'm happy to make encouraging noises if it helps. But no way, when there are probably still 18 months or more to go, am I promising them my vote on the basis of so little. They can do a lot better and I think I'm entitled to ask for better.

I am glad that the UK doesn't have unhelpful religious people like in the US where they are insisting that gender is sex

The gender recognition act allows someone to change their sex marker on their birth certificate.

Our government is insisting that gender is sex.

If they fulfil their promise to bring in self/ID for GRCs, then, as it stands, they cannot protect women’s sex based spaces using the exceptions in the Equality Act.

This is because the original 2010 intentions in the act as to what ‘Sex’ means has become muddied.

GRCs say that a person has changed sex. Even though this is not physically possible, this has created a legal situation where it would be discriminatory to exclude a man who says he is a woman from a woman’s sex based (biological) space.

Lady Haldane’s judgement in Scotland has just made this clear. She said that if in the Equality Act characteristic ‘Sex’ meant biological sex it would have said so.

So if you think Labour means this, and you have a Labour MP, why not write to them to urge them to give their support to the petition started by Sex-Matters to update the Equality Act to make clear the protected characteristic “Sex” is biological and not sex as modified by a GRC?

To write to your MP:
sex-matters.org/take-action/write-to-your-mp-about-the-petition/

To sign the petition to update the Equality Act:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4758082-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-3

Times article
for better explanation:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-to-debate-gender-petition-backed-by-jk-rowling-qh0h0bctk
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4534821c-bf89-11ed-b52d-512231a0c9aa?shareToken=a2be6368ec3ec1a7a1e413545f54b9d9

Street if is clever enough to understand the issues if he tried. So he is a weasel.

Jess Phillips adding a man to the Counting Dead Women list - and not even a man with a GRC - was the point I stopped spoiling my ballot and will allow myself to vote Conservative. The Labour Party is lost to women.

Watching here too and hoping, but very very cautious after years of trans-activist-dogma within the Labour party.

However, I sympathise with those who have failed to stand-up with Rosie Diffield.

Rosie has suffered much abuse for her position - she is in harm's way and certainly not safe from those balaclavad men of trans-activism. You can see why the less brave might not speak out - it would take much courage and that would be spread over years rather than just for a speech or a day's protest.

No, I am all out of sympathy for MPs and especially for cabinet ministers. They were elected to represent us.

Sorry I should have said cabinet ministers and shadow cabinet ministers.

I'm really uncomfortable with the idea that sex means different things in different situations. Or rather, i dont trust the government to be able to legislate for two meanings for the same word - bological, birth, legal, aquired sex. When would the different sex be used, how can we differentiate between them? Isnt that what we have now, and it doesnt work?

We know the GRA is a bad law because politicians are doing their best not to talk about it in a clear, honest way.

Rosie has suffered much abuse for her position

From within the labour party as much as anywhere else. Not just from
men in balaclavas, from fellow MPs.

To repeal the GRA and work out a better way. It was a mistake in the way the law was written.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4688427-repeal-the-gra

Just three that jumped out at me....

Grooming gangs.. ultimately a lack of Police Action.

Female leader? All them a total mess for women.

Many Union leaders are Women, inc a recent head of the TUC... how many heads of business have been women?

No party is perfect but if anyone still has faith in the Tories after 13 years of the gradual removal of womens rights... more fool them.

I'll hold judgement until i read Labours manifesto.

they stand for and safeguard dangerous men

Yes exactly. The people who are least in need of safeguarding have it, those who most need safeguarding, children, dont.
Fucked up world.

Starmer wants to pass the leadership on to Wes Streeting ' who looks like his son except made out of margarine ' - according to Alexei Sayle.

I love Alexei Sayle - don't agree with all his politics but he is bang on the money there.

If it is true he wants to 'pass on the leadership' to WS then that just goes to show what BS their democratic values are.

I too think Streeting’s statement is a clear shift. It’s the first time I’ve heard acknowledgment of the “gaslighting of women”.